Results Of Safety And Health Inspections...
Part # 1 (part 2 will follow) Repeat posting
The alarming information presented here and on the next posting, are public records. The Board has made a deliberate attempt to keep this information from the members. There also appears to be a deliberate attempt to minimize information and impact to all Board members.
Note that the violations are listed as "Serious" The pages presented here are required to be posted at the Water Department for all the workers to see. I will be posting the Summary of Assessed Penalties Due . This will include a full description of each violation.
Each violation contains the statement:
"Employees exposed to airborne asbestos fibers are at risk of developing Mesothelioma, asbestosis, or lung cancer, which can cause death or lifelong debilitating illness "
You will want to carefully read each page of the many violations. The extent of the numerous violations really is shocking. Safety meetings were not documented or any records of who attended.
These violations have far reaching implications of there being more fines and the criminal investigation continues.
North Beach Water is under the General Manager, Bill Neal. They also have workers exposed to asbestos pipe. Can they expect to also be cited for handling asbestos pipe without proper safety requirements and lack of safety meetings? They do make broken pipe repairs. What about a private contractor being hired to help in repairs of broken water mains? This investigation has far reaching implications for many.
Yet, we continue with a North Beach contract and even pay them more each year. The water field superintendent gets a raise and a bonus. Will this Board step up and do the job that we elected them to do? At this point there is no evidence of that. And, they have the nerve to ask for continued funding.
Click on each of the two pages below for a larger read. The ugly details will be posted later, or you can look it up yourself under public records.
71 comments:
I was told that surfside has engaged the council of an attorney at 700.00 an hour. At this time several hours have been spent and this is only the beginning.
It's hard to grasp how Trustees allowed improper practices to go on over a period of several years, and employees knowing the risk factors, exposed themselves to asbestos dust. Aware of all of this, the BOT allowed Williams to pursue his personal issues with Patrick over a shed roof at a cost of over $75,000. Meanwhile, Mr. Flood has insisted the pipe replacement must continue at a cost of over $150,000 annually, knowing there is no oversight, and improper practices promise a reckoning with the State and EPA.
We don't know what finally brought the BOT to their senses, resulting in their withdrawal of the lawsuit against Patrick, but all of this expense just amounted to pouring money down a deep whole. Mr. Flood hasn't attended more than a few Board Meetings in person in going on 2 years. What's that about ? Our other HOA allows for removal of any Board member who misses 3 B. mtgs in a row. At what point is he just dead weight ?
What is really aggravating is, the legal costs and enormous fines will end up being paid by the membership of Surfside. This is also likely to take as much as a couple of years to reach a final conclusion legally. This has the added "perk" of being a big warning sign to any folks considering buying in Surfside. HOAs embroiled in serious legal matters are a BAD investment, with new owners stepping into a community burdened by fines that will seriously impact the necessary investment in infrastructure.
The Winter is coming, and the new filter columns have not had the protective building completed, and they are due NOW to be replaced with fresh carbon material at a cost of about $60,000 it is estimated. (That has been postponed). We certainly want a good attorney, but the very bestest and most expensivist attorney, isn't going to be able to change much, given brazen disregard for EPA and State standards over the course of years !
Your actually going to blame the employees? Really?. How callous considering the shortening of their lives. Everything else I totally agree with.
What about North Beach Water District employees? They repair asbestos pipe also. Neal and that board need to be investigated. Bet they didn't have the training and proper equipment either.
Since this has been going on longer than the current board, which board are you talking about?
Does it matter? We all on hook. Blame will be decided by others, not shoa members.
Flood, Williams, Neal, Kirby, Laura and Gil all belong in jail and out of our lives.
2:56 YOU'RE FUNNY, NO ONE IS GOING TO JAIL
He said “belong”.
2:56 you are right on. Its far from funny 2:56. Nothing about Kirby Jerk, Laura Attitude, Czar Williams or Ghost Flood is humorous. Its called pathetic! PS: Gil has been trying to survive in this losing battle.
"Yes sir Gil" is a part of the problem. He knew the laws on safe handling of asbestos pipe, but was willing to say yes sir to Neal. He betrayed the trust of the water department workers who trusted he would look after their safety. Yes Gil is trying to survive this losing battle, but he has let down his fellow workers. He has proven himself to be no different than the others. Gil was not always this way, but under neal and the other jerks, he failed.
So basically the people you don't like. Meanwhile the few Trustee's you like, Patrick and George for example, get a pass.
Got it.
9:45 sounds about right.
11:16 ... How did you come to the conclusion I'm "blaming" the employees for anything ? All of the bruhaha is about failure to follow Federal guidelines for handling materials containing asbestos, and that is a management failure.
But every adult should be aware of the dangers related to handling materials containing asbestos. As an employee, you can wear a coverall and breathing protection, adequate in this case to prevent exposure. Did management recommend using protective measures at employees discretion ? We don't know.
It is not likely anyone was forbidden from protecting themselves, or that breathing protection was not available. So yeah, each individual has some responsibility to protect their own health, and to report improper practices if forbidden from taking precautionary measures.
It seems likely that an employee may have finally reported the lack of proper protocol, though the growing pile of discarded asbestos pipe on-site at the Waterworks has been there to be seen by anyone. There are jobs that require risking one's life, but this should not in all practicality, be such a case.
10:40 AM fails to see the seriousness of this problem by calling it a "bruhaha" L&I states the violations are "serious". Perhaps if 10:40 or his children had been exposed, he would have a different view. L&I even states the hazard of wearing clothing that would expose family members when worn home.
It is obvious that 10:40 is making a weak attempt for shared responsibility in safety regarding AC pipe. I expect he will also try to make that argument in sharing fines with North Beach.
This is just another example of blaming the victim. This member, the board, Bill Neal and supervisory staff are the responsible parties. The victims will have their day in court and hopefully those responsible, will have their days in jail. I suspect that 10:40 is one of those responsible, and I don't mean an employee. It is shameful and disgusting to see this truth come forth and being done on a blog.
Well aren't you the righteous poop ? I am not a board member and you totally misunderstood the intent of my comments. While I have not used my name, I have been very critical of this situation that is an unbelievable cluster of mistakes and blunders. This has been going on for a few years now, so the most astounding part is that no one had the wisdom to take a serious look at the impending reckoning coming their way, and take corrective action.
What you failed to recognize is that I stated that any employee who was not provided with protective gear should have reported the improper procedures being routinely practiced in the pipe replacement project. At the same time, every adult should be well aware of the dangers of asbestos, with irreversible damage to the respiratory system, suffering and death a certainty, and take responsible measures to protect themselves.
It's like walking in front of an oncoming cement truck, proud that you are in a pedestrian crossing. Self-preservation is an indispensable tool for the toolbox of anyone who expects to live very long. Everyone on the Water Dept. staff knew they were to have safety meetings, wear protective clothing in handling asbestos, and knew that there are specific Federal requirements for the disposal of this discarded material.
Replacing waterlines should not be a life threatening process, and workers have had no reason whatsoever to put themselves in jeopardy, at management's request. Everyone involved with this had the opportunity to make better decisions, and insist that the law be adhered to. People need jobs, so I don't BLAME the employees for the mistakes of management. But this could have easily been turned around long ago if someone would have either reported it or threatened to.
I've worked in numerous industrial settings, been exposed to industrial materials such as carbon black, powdered glass, sulfer, and benzene in a massive tire plant, and various chemicals used in the printing industry where I worked for many years. I worked in a plastic bag factory once when unemployed at holiday time. It was a back-breaker, and open vats of solvents and buckets of liquid ink were everywhere in the plant - unbelievably dangerous and combustible. It pays to know exactly what the risks are.
You just can't stop putting blame on the employees. When safety is involved, you never assume that anyone knows or is aware of any or all safety hazards. That is why you hold monthly safety meetings. These employees had no training in handling or disposal of asbestos pipe. Did you read the violations? There are no violations against the employees. Thank God we have the L&I agency, to provide rules and recourse for workers from people like you. This is all about knowingly violating the laws and putting the workers health and life at risk. Can you get it through your head that it is not the workers fault? Apparently a worker did speak up and that's where we are today. An investigation and charges and fines. As for where you worked and how smart you were, frankly, I don't give a damn.
Blah Blah Blah...all that will happen is that ALL us members will have to pony up a lot of $$$$. Who will take the fall? probably no one since they will be protected in some way.
The workers will suffer, that's what will happen. You think more about your $$$$. than the real victims. The employees will take the fall with their lives. Your nothing more than a Blah Blah Blah.
Please folks, don't upset the Bruce Banner of Surfside. You've been warned.
5:43 sez --- I suggest that you assume that we all have concerns for the employee's welfare. We do not know if employees used protective gear or not. We have been told that the material is very stable until broken or cut. That is my point 7:56. With a modicum of caution, no employees would have been significantly exposed.
No one is BLAMING the employees in any way for this systemic failing. You are reading in things that have not been said for the sake of drama. Yes, above all we hope that no one has been seriously exposed.
What I was trying to address was, we sometimes are asked to do things in our work that are hazardous and we must use some of our own judgement as to whether it is safe enough. One print shop I worked in had old linoleum tile w/ asbestos in it that was peeling up from exposure to solvents copiously used in printing. Obviously, sweeping the floor sent dust into the air, as did the wind. I never thought much about it until years after. I'm healthy at 67, so I may have lucked out.
Well 8:44, aren't you special? Did you read the violations? Crushing, sawing and breaking pipe to bury below the new settling pond in the well field would indicate to anyone with an ounce of common sense, that they were exposed. You continue to blame the employees. The courts will have the final say. Thankfully, not you.
You are an idiot. I did not blame the employees moron.--- 8:44
When you revert to name calling, you have lost the argument.
You are incapable of processing another point of view, so are incapable of conversing. There was no argument to lose.
While the term "brouhaha" has "haha" in it, it need not have a sarcastic meaning. Dictionary : "uproar, tumult, ruckus, clamor". It CAN be used to imply an "over-excited" reaction.
Look up fool. That is a description of you.
I just relay information for the most part. You are apparently 3:03. Sorry you are incapable of processing new information, or grasping the intent of other folk's viewpoints. Along with needing to avoid walking in front of on-coming cement trucks, we need to be capable of processing new information, and being able to identify who the enemy is. It AIN'T me I can assure you.
The fact is, if anyone employed at the Water Dept. was exposed to asbestos to the extent of jeopardizing their health, Surfside HOA will be obligated to pay out millions of dollars for stupid mistakes that could have been avoided. The legal system will decide how to deal with this, and our opinions have no significance in reality.
What I tried to relate was, many people have been exposed to harmful chemicals and/or asbestos over time, and not everyone contracts debilitating or deadly disease. We all hope for the best outcome for any Water Dept. workers, because we care about our fellow human beings, know what suffering is, and understand how such things impact families and their livelihood.
On the other hand, if we love life, love our families, expect to provide for them - we need to use some personal judgement about putting ourselves in jeopardy in handling a known killer - asbestos. Get it ?? I am not the fool you seek.
I accept your explanation. Your original comments seemed to lack empathy for our employees and put more responsibility on them than they deserve. Most of them are young and probably are not as aware of the dangers of airborne asbestos as some of the older generation. It appears that we agree on more than what we disagree. I apologize for calling you a fool and appreciate your concerns for our employees. The board has to also accept their responsibility, make corrections, and see that this never happens again.
I appreciate your willingness to hear me out. It is true that young employees with the desire to prove themselves worthy tend to trust their employers, and without training may put themselves in jeopardy. I was 18 when I went to work at the largest tire plant in the country. I was told I would be working in a different job than I was given, which ended-up being a janitorial position in the most dangerous part of the plant.
Long term work in that department resulted in black lung disease and death.
You are so purposefully wrong. If one was to do what you say and got fired. Then what would you say?
I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!
Wow, tough guy or girl or fool!
And get fired, no way. Your simplistic let the market handle safety issues is a dinosaur ideology.
Oh, good for you. You were saved.
The old pipes were ripped up, broken and shattered, right at the homes of many members as the main replacement project proceeded. The broken, asbestos containing pipes were often left on the ground for several days at our homes and adjacent properties. I believe that dangerous exposure happened to many more people than only the water dept. employees.
Apparently the asbestos is very stable in the matrix, and only about 10% of the material. Workers were aware that the pipe has asbestos in it, so it is unlikely they were making great efforts to smash it up unnecessarily. It is not at all likely that passers-by were exposed significantly. Still, the poor handling practices are a shocking failure of management, so blatantly disregarding strict guidelines for handling and disposal.
Also bizarre that they decided to bury the disposed pipe under the holding pond which obviously drains into the aquifer. It is only dangerous to breathe the fibers, but still warped thinking.
How do u know they were aware? None were trained at the time, including Mr. Neal. Making excuses are we?
Anybody who reads the news is aware of the dangers of asbestos.
The decisions made here were shockingly stupid, especially with anyone in the industry in the loop.
My personal opinion is that the arrogance of the board of trustees contributed heavily to this problem.
There was talk about asbestos in old pipes at several meetings in 2010. I was there and heard it. There was no record of this in the meeting minutes even though one request to make sure that it got in the minutes.
Knowing bout asbestos n knowing it’s in what appears as just cement pipe, are not the same. I was not told the pipe was an asbestos danger. Easy to speculate, when you weren’t involved.
ANY asbestos in pipes or anything else such as commonly used insulation is a danger and this has been well known for many, many years. I remember having curtains on some windows in my office that contained asbestos many, many years ago.
9:33 sez...This type of pipe has been used in other systems in our area for decades. The name of the pipe includes the word "asbestos" in it in a condensed form.
We can't say for certain what crews discussed or didn't discuss regarding the pipe laying. On the other hand, Mr. Haskins has stated that when he was Water Dept. manager, they buried the replaced pipe in the trenches alongside the newly installed pipe, which is the recommended procedure for replacing asbestos pipe. Mr. Neal began hauling the material to the backlot of the Water Dept..
We needn't have a contest of who is most concerned or sympathetic. We should assume that no one in Surfside would want to see Water Dept. employees suffer health issues resulting from handling this material.
I think most employees ask questions about safety when they are concerned, and not using any caution while knowing there is danger is foolish. But the HOA, Mr. Neal, and North Beach, will all have to face the wrath of the County, State and Federal EPA who will decide who is most responsible and huge fines go along with it.
There's no question that this was a monumental screw-up top to bottom, and the entire membership will be on the hook to pay for the failure to exercise any oversight of Water Dept. procedures. Why is there a Water System Committee ? Vice-prez Jim Flood is on the committee, yet they weren't asking any questions of Mr. neal who is required to attend committee meetings ? No one knew they were stockpiling asbestos pipe for years on the backlot ?
Members as well as employees have been exposed to asbestos due to the improper handling of shattered pipes during the main replacement project. Should those members develop symptoms, they would have every reason and right to sue for damages.
u oh, seems there are members now who are positioning themselves to possibley take advantage of the "exporure" situation. I'm going to start making up my story now.
Good luck 12:47. The pipe only contains 10% asbestos in the matrix, which can only release dust when dry, and cut or crushed. Stuff laying by the roadside is not likely to expose anyone. It is inexcusable that this was handled as it was, but the amount of dust so generated would be miniscule. Did you get your face down next to the broken material and breathe heavily ? Probably not.
Much better to not worry yourself over trifles.
Re: December 22, 2018 at 9:41 AM
All true, but the greater issue is the total disregard of all the known LAWS & REGULATIONS regarding the safe handling of the Asbestos Concrete pipe (ACP).
For which there is no excuse for and the folks in charge need to be held accountable.
Ignorance is not an excuse, especially when it comes to the two people Gil & Bill who run the water dept, knew full well what they did with the ACP is so so wrong!
9:41 sez...I agree totally Bob. We're fortunate to have you to offer insight into past practices, and your experiences working for Surfside. Thanks !!
Btw, there are past and present water employees that dealt with the pipe, and are also members.
So what makes Bob Haskins an authoritative go to in this matter. Seems that he was discharged from Surfside so you think he might have some prejudice towards Surfside. Sadly Surfside hasn't had any qualified person running the water department in the history of Surfside. Pump operators on fire trucks and well diggers don't make a person qualified.
Re: December 25, 2018 at 9:32 PM
Well bless your heart!
You sound like one of the fools who worked so hard to fire me while I was out injured. So you could bring on the non certified well driller who had been undermining me for the better part of my last year.
So how is that management decision work out for you guys?
A point well made, Bob. You have tried to share information and have not shown great animosity in doing so. That's how I see it.
I go for walks daily in SS and have for a couple of years also I drink the water. Recently (the past 2 months) I have had a sore throat. Is it possible iv been exposed to the asbestos?
No
Talk to your doctor. Few if any on the blog are likely to be qualified to answer that question. In the meantime, try changing any water filters in the home, don't forget the fridge filter. Filters that become overwhelmed can begin to release contaminants back into the water at high enough doses to cause a burning sensation.
Remember, ingested asbestos will simply pass on through but those exposed to the wind blowing over that large pile of broken asbestos pipe may need to possibly worry.
George your home lies within the wind cone of that exposed pile of asbestos pipe.
Ingested asbestos can be a health hazard, including possibly liver cancer. DOH requires that water systems with asbestos pipe monitor for asbestos in the water. Anyone who is concerned should consult a doctor and or a reputable site on asbestos.
Not sure where you are getting your info but asbestos is an inert substance. Just how would the liver be affected by a fibre that is not digested?
Now if you breathe in enough of these asbestos fibres you will have problems such as the old ship workers in ww2 experienced.
We are exposed every day to asbestos especially along roads from the brake dust etc. This inert material was used everywhere and still is.
And yes the DOH requires testing but it more about showing the overall condition of the water system pipes. I think this testing occurs at either 3 to 5 year intervals.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.asbestos.com/news/2013/02/28/cholangiocarcinoma-the-next-asbestos-related-disease/amp/.
Times change, science advances. If you have concerns talk to a doctor.
EPAs limit on asbestos in drinking water is 7 million fibers per liter. Listed potential health effect: increased risk of benign intestinal polyps. Now it seems that the risk is likely more than just benign polyps, but research is still ongoing.
Regardless of our everyday exposure, EPA and L&I regulate how much asbestos you can expose employees and consumers to. Talk to your doctor about daily exposure vs. industrial exposure.
We are at the mercy of a world that can't seem to grasp the need to dial-back the levels of pollution that are killing our planet. In the N.w. we are down wind from N. Korean nuclear testing as well as the still hot nuclear reactors on the coast of Japan.
There is so much pollution in the ocean that particles of plastic large enough to see can be found in some shellfish such as muscles. City water supplies across the country puzzle over how to remove prescription drugs from water supplies, detected in significant concentrations.
The current administration has been systematically removing environmental protections that have taken decades of effort to put in place in the United States, while most European nations take a much more proactive approach in this threat to our current health and the future of the human race. Global warming is denied by Trump while there remains no question it is already probably beyond our control among the scientific community.
Pollution has been demonstrated to be the primary cause of global warming. Electing such delusional folks to high government positions, feeds global demise, as does irresponsible HOA Trustees who turn a blind eye to Surfside pollution.
Re: January 5, 2019 at 10:30 AM
This belongs on facebook not here
We're talking about pollution here, and that's what the comment is aimed at. The truth hurts doesn't it ? Ignoring reality allows those in government to serve their own short-term interests at all of our expense. Who will pay the Surfside fines ? who will be most at risk of asbestos related health issues known to be deadly ? Facebook ? I never have belonged.
https://www.mesothelioma.com/mesothelioma/types/peritoneal.htm
https://www.cwp.org/asbestos-finds-way-water-sources/
https://cfpub.epa.gov/compliance/criminal_prosecution/index.cfm?action=3&prosecution_summary_id=2483
7:58 - Pretty serious consequences for the Idaho defendants for similar, if not identical violations as those committed in Surfside:
Greiner was sentenced to 6 months incarceration, 6 months of home confinement, followed by 6 months of supervised release.
Eberhart was sentenced to 6 months incarceration plus 6 months of home confinement, followed by 6 months of supervised release, 200 hours of community service, and restitution of $3.98 million, in joint and several liability with Greiner.
RCW 9A.28.040
Criminal conspiracy.
(1) A person is guilty of criminal conspiracy when, with intent that conduct constituting a crime be performed, he or she agrees with one or more persons to engage in or cause the performance of such conduct, and any one of them takes a substantial step in pursuance of such agreement.
RCW 9A.72.120
Tampering with a witness.
(1) A person is guilty of tampering with a witness if he or she attempts to induce a witness or person he or she has reason to believe is about to be called as a witness in any official proceeding or a person whom he or she has reason to believe may have information relevant to a criminal investigation or the abuse or neglect of a minor child to:
(a) Testify falsely or, without right or privilege to do so, to withhold any testimony; or
(b) Absent himself or herself from such proceedings; or
(c) Withhold from a law enforcement agency information which he or she has relevant to a criminal investigation or the abuse or neglect of a minor child to the agency.
(2) Tampering with a witness is a class C felony.
(3) For purposes of this section, each instance of an attempt to tamper with a witness constitutes a separate offense.
18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
US Code
Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
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