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WATER
This page is for discussions related to our water for drinking and irrigation...,
38 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Why does the water keep getting worse with the more we pay? Does anyone know what the hell they are doing? My dog won't even drink it.
With black particles appearing in toilet tank and around some sink drain holes, I'm guessing that they recharged (correct term unknown?) the charcoal filter system not long ago. The water appears clearer also. As always, I will continue to filter all drinking and cooking water at my house due to concerns about the safety of our water.
I'm told that a delivery truck provides the bottled and filtered water to the Surfside Office and the Water Department. I would like to see the monthly cost of this service. I also would like to see the end of the Bill Neal contract to manage our water system. Big fail in so many ways.
They get it delivered for the board room, the front office is not open to the board room after hours or on the weekend. They do not have running water in the board room
I don't see a problem with the office being provided with bottled water. As members, there are more significant expenditures that merit scrutiny, and poor management in general.
On 8/23/2018 check #2207 was issued to H20 for "Bottled Water Delivery For Boardroom/business Office".
North Beach Water.. 160.11 Mileage Reimbursement For July Bill Neal), "Ball Assembly For New Trailer Purchase By Bill".
North Beach Water...5,797.37 "Water System Manager - Bill Neal, Mileage For June, Reimburse Purchase Of Sprayers For Water Dept (purchased By Bill At Jacks)".
The point is not the cost, but if water is good. Use it. Btw, ocean woods water is yellow again, has been since about a month after filters went online. No idea on quality, but at least chlorine smell is gone. Filters are not cheap. I wonder what total expense to residents are? Why can we buy filters that work n they can’t?
I have been informed that the carbon needs replacement now, but because of the cost, it will be done after the first of the year with new budget. It appears the carbon will have to be replaced twice a year.
How much did this project cost us? And the water still sucks. Now we get to spend big bucks in an attempt to salvage and maintain this equipment. Yea, bottled water for the office...another head scratcher. Eff'ing idiots we have managing our money.
Given the cost of the CTP, it seems unlikely they would be manufactured if they don't work. We may have challenging conditions that need to be remedied, such as the steep hill the lines climb in and out of the plant.
New and more powerful pumps were installed with the intention of resolving that issue. Our water usage is low and sporadic, which is thought may contribute to inconsistencies, so flushing seeks to help in that regard.
I haven't researched these kinds of plants, and am curious what the overall appraisal of their performance is. These plants have a smaller footprint than many other systems, so fit the current site well, and they can easily be operated with a small crew.
To just assume that installing this plant was sheer stupidity is a quick and easy assessment, but that isn't an analytically sound look at variables involved. If we accept it as fact, there may be solutions we fail to discover because we gave up. That's probably stupid also.
Mr. Cox really needs to get better informed before lecturing. This system was tested on site, and other municipalities and found wanting. The research on this system was ignored. The pumps were replaced because they were worn out n constantly having to be rebuilt. They were rushed into this system because they got caught flushing at test point before sample draw. Threatened with fines and a shut down, they drug their heels n time ran out. Entire project ran way behind schedule once was committed too it. A case of the blind leading the blind.
I speculate: If the Surfside water is consistently problematic, and the North Beach Water is quite good, doesn't it make sense that at some point, Surfside would throw up its hands and get on board with North Beach Water? So would North Beach Water be motivated to do a very good job as a contract manager? I am not accusing anybody, Just saying there is an obvious conflict of interest in my opinion. On the other hand, Surfside HOA may be doing this to itself, unintentionally.
11:00... As I said, it's easy to dismiss this entire plan as "stupidity", and I have no great faith in the BOT, but I question that anyone outside of the Water Dept. has the knowledge to determine that this is a bust. Who are you, and why should we give your comments credence ?
I was aware that pumps were replaced due to wear, but I don't think you are accurate in saying they weren't upgraded.
Owners can confirm as I have, that water quality improved once the plant went online. I'm not claiming to have knowledge no one else does, so I'm not lecturing, but suggesting we may as well remain optimistic that more experience with the system may lead to greater efficiency.
I stated that I have not yet researched CTP's operating histories, so no need to point that out to me - and we don't know your history either. You offer no evidence of your claims, and we all know that Raymond abandoned their CTP. So we should assume that CTPs don't work, but communities spend millions of dollars to install them anyway ?
And who has said North Beach water is wonderful ? Do they have any filter plant of any kind, or just manage the district ?
11:00 got his info from talking to employees, and personal experience, where does Mr. Cox get his expertise? I’m anonymous so I can continue to be educated. Bathing in pee colored water is not a fix. If the bod was honest and transparent, we wouldn’t have so much supposition on this blog. In fact the blog wouldn’t really be needed.
Only a handful of people are active in this membership, maybe if people participated instead of complaining things would change. You want a new board but no one steps up, you want a new water manager but don't want to pay for it, you want a whole lot but do absolutely nothing to help the matter.
Thanks to this blog everyone is afraid to help because they will be torn to shreds.
We see what happens to board members that challenge the status quo, over n over. Our own water manager with changes, would be cheaper. You are the type that has done the shredding. Ask George n few others as far as being shredded at meetings. Whether attending or not. Feel free to shred me.
We have been paying over sixty thousand a year to north beach, and for what? A part time well digger that we had to pay for his certifications. He is nothing more than a yes boy for flood, another self pro-claimed expert. It is also obvious that mr. cox doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.
I don't claim to have any expertise. I get that you are full of righteous indignation, and have made it clear that everyone who supported the CTP are idiots, and there is no hope, so offer no real suggestions of where to go from here.
If you chill your attitude long enough you might comprehend that I am not lecturing, but saying we have not seen proof that this CTP system is a bust, or that after less than a year of operation, it cannot perform better. You are one of a few who insist this plant is worthless, but do not have knowledge or evidence to validate your opinion.
Guess you just hate the insinuation that you and everyone else may as well be optimistic that there may be minor issues that can be ironed-out, making the plant more efficient. The system has been online barely a year.
Would you suggest we sell our plant on Ebay ? The building site, lack of proper permitting, and failure to complete the filter column enclosure are currently the most critical issues to resolve. Can you take care of the pissing and moaning ?
I remember reading that someone queried other water districts _BEFORE_ SHOA purchased the CTP and was told the system was junk and expensive to maintain. But SHOA decided to go ahead with the purchase anyways...and now we are stuck trying to make it work and will be paying for it for a very long time.
Anyone paying any attention should be aware that Mr. Raymer interviewed someone with the Raymond Water Dept. late in the discussion of possibilities, and they gave the negative review. This type of system is a common system used, and it is not established that these systems 'are junk". The cost to operate is low, the footprint small, and the initial investment modest. The carbon material used is expensive to replace, and may need to be changed as frequently as 10 months.
The material is recyclable, and is heat-treated at very high temperature to make it reusable. The Water Dept. tells us ours needs replacing, but the out of control legal spending has left Surfside unable to afford the replacement necessary.
1:09 said "The cost to operate is low" but then says the material needs replacing and Surfside can't afford it. I don't know about you, but $60k every 10 months sounds expensive to me. And what is our water quality at now since they can't replace the carbon material? I think "junk" is the correct terminology...
I can't understand why SHOA failed to pull permits and get studies done. They harp on us every week in their Surf Sider to remind us to submit plans and pull permits for our projects, but then pull this crap! Got us some real winners running things around here.
At this point the big question has to be, is our water safe to drink? The mandated CTP that was forced on us by the state was to make our water safe. Now that the CTP has maintenance deferred I have to assume our water is back to the unsafe condition it was before the CTP was added. When was the last time water samples were taken and what are the results?
Ok then, was our water safe for human consumption BEFORE we purchased the CTP? I would think since the media hasn't been changed/backwashed/cleaned then it could be adding contaminants that were not present before the CTP was installed. Operating outside published procedures can't be good.
The real issue for us members is that we have been told so many different stories, we don't know what to believe. We contracted with North Beach to manage our water system. How did that work for us? We are asked to trust our directors. They are volunteers. Contracts require more than trust, they require performance. The Board failed the members at least once on safe water and no changes were made. They continue on with the same old, and we are expected to expect better results? I don't think so.
Water pressure is much lower than in previous years. I may have to give up on most of my gardening. Low water pressure is counterproductive to trying to make this community more attractive.
For those who don't read the Weekender or Facebook...from SHOA::
Surfside Water System Flushing: November 19th – 21st, 8 AM – 4 PM. The Surfside Water Dept will be performing system wide routine flushing of the water system. Road signs will notify neighborhoods that flushing is occurring in their area. Flushing can stir up discolored and dirty water, can cause low water pressure, and can plug faucet screens. You may want to postpone running fixtures such as washing machines and dishwashers until after flushing is completed in your neighborhood. Flush discolored or dirty water through a hose faucet prior to using water in the home. If you have questions please call April Garcia 360-783-2037.
38 comments:
Why does the water keep getting worse with the more we pay? Does anyone know what the hell they are doing? My dog won't even drink it.
Our water is fine, clear no smell, we are down on G
My water is fine also. N Place...306th
With black particles appearing in toilet tank and around some sink drain holes, I'm guessing that they recharged (correct term unknown?) the charcoal filter system not long ago. The water appears clearer also. As always, I will continue to filter all drinking and cooking water at my house due to concerns about the safety of our water.
I'm told that a delivery truck provides the bottled and filtered water to the Surfside Office and the Water Department. I would like to see the monthly cost of this service. I also would like to see the end of the Bill Neal contract to manage our water system. Big fail in so many ways.
They get it delivered for the board room, the front office is not open to the board room after hours or on the weekend. They do not have running water in the board room
Agreed, water is good on G st, no smell and 90% clearer than when we first move here 15 yrs ago
I don't see a problem with the office being provided with bottled water. As members, there are more significant expenditures that merit scrutiny, and poor management in general.
On 8/23/2018 check #2207 was issued to H20 for "Bottled Water Delivery For Boardroom/business Office".
North Beach Water..
160.11 Mileage Reimbursement For July Bill Neal), "Ball Assembly For New Trailer Purchase By Bill".
North Beach Water...5,797.37
"Water System Manager - Bill Neal, Mileage For June, Reimburse Purchase Of Sprayers For Water
Dept (purchased By Bill At Jacks)".
The cost for the bottled water was 19.99
The point is not the cost, but if water is good. Use it. Btw, ocean woods water is yellow again, has been since about a month after filters went online. No idea on quality, but at least chlorine smell is gone. Filters are not cheap. I wonder what total expense to residents are? Why can we buy filters that work n they can’t?
I have been informed that the carbon needs replacement now, but because of the cost, it will be done after the first of the year with new budget. It appears the carbon will have to be replaced twice a year.
"It appears the carbon will have to be replaced twice a year." at what cost?
Tell me again about what happened in Raymond?
How much did this project cost us? And the water still sucks. Now we get to spend big bucks in an attempt to salvage and maintain this equipment. Yea, bottled water for the office...another head scratcher. Eff'ing idiots we have managing our money.
Definitionof stupid is to do same fail over n over n expect a differant result. I.e filter system. So are they stupid, or crooked (kickbacks).
Re:October 12, 2018 at 8:39 AM
That is the definition of insane and I experienced it for too long.
Given the cost of the CTP, it seems unlikely they would be manufactured if they don't work. We may have challenging conditions that need to be remedied, such as the steep hill the lines climb in and out of the plant.
New and more powerful pumps were installed with the intention of resolving that issue. Our water usage is low and sporadic, which is thought may contribute to inconsistencies, so flushing seeks to help in that regard.
I haven't researched these kinds of plants, and am curious what the overall appraisal of their performance is. These plants have a smaller footprint than many other systems, so fit the current site well, and they can easily be operated with a small crew.
To just assume that installing this plant was sheer stupidity is a quick and easy assessment, but that isn't an analytically sound look at variables involved. If we accept it as fact, there may be solutions we fail to discover because we gave up. That's probably stupid also.
Mr. Cox really needs to get better informed before lecturing. This system was tested on site, and other municipalities and found wanting. The research on this system was ignored. The pumps were replaced because they were worn out n constantly having to be rebuilt. They were rushed into this system because they got caught flushing at test point before sample draw. Threatened with fines and a shut down, they drug their heels n time ran out. Entire project ran way behind schedule once was committed too it. A case of the blind leading the blind.
I speculate: If the Surfside water is consistently problematic, and the North Beach Water is quite good, doesn't it make sense that at some point, Surfside would throw up its hands and get on board with North Beach Water? So would North Beach Water be motivated to do a very good job as a contract manager? I am not accusing anybody, Just saying there is an obvious conflict of interest in my opinion.
On the other hand, Surfside HOA may be doing this to itself, unintentionally.
11:00... As I said, it's easy to dismiss this entire plan as "stupidity", and I have no great faith in the BOT, but I question that anyone outside of the Water Dept. has the knowledge to determine that this is a bust. Who are you, and why should we give your comments credence ?
I was aware that pumps were replaced due to wear, but I don't think you are accurate in saying they weren't upgraded.
Owners can confirm as I have, that water quality improved once the plant went online. I'm not claiming to have knowledge no one else does, so I'm not lecturing, but suggesting we may as well remain optimistic that more experience with the system may lead to greater efficiency.
I stated that I have not yet researched CTP's operating histories, so no need to point that out to me - and we don't know your history either. You offer no evidence of your claims, and we all know that Raymond abandoned their CTP. So we should assume that CTPs don't work, but communities spend millions of dollars to install them anyway ?
And who has said North Beach water is wonderful ? Do they have any filter plant of any kind, or just manage the district ?
11:00 got his info from talking to employees, and personal experience, where does Mr. Cox get his expertise? I’m anonymous so I can continue to be educated. Bathing in pee colored water is not a fix. If the bod was honest and transparent, we wouldn’t have so much supposition on this blog. In fact the blog wouldn’t really be needed.
Only a handful of people are active in this membership, maybe if people participated instead of complaining things would change. You want a new board but no one steps up, you want a new water manager but don't want to pay for it, you want a whole lot but do absolutely nothing to help the matter.
Thanks to this blog everyone is afraid to help because they will be torn to shreds.
We see what happens to board members that challenge the status quo, over n over. Our own water manager with changes, would be cheaper. You are the type that has done the shredding. Ask George n few others as far as being shredded at meetings. Whether attending or not. Feel free to shred me.
Things are happening, let the shredding begin!
We have been paying over sixty thousand a year to north beach, and for what? A part time well digger that we had to pay for his certifications. He is nothing more than a yes boy for flood, another self pro-claimed expert. It is also obvious that mr. cox doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.
I don't claim to have any expertise. I get that you are full of righteous indignation, and have made it clear that everyone who supported the CTP are idiots, and there is no hope, so offer no real suggestions of where to go from here.
If you chill your attitude long enough you might comprehend that I am not lecturing, but saying we have not seen proof that this CTP system is a bust, or that after less than a year of operation, it cannot perform better. You are one of a few who insist this plant is worthless, but do not have knowledge or evidence to validate your opinion.
Guess you just hate the insinuation that you and everyone else may as well be optimistic that there may be minor issues that can be ironed-out, making the plant more efficient. The system has been online barely a year.
Would you suggest we sell our plant on Ebay ? The building site, lack of proper permitting, and failure to complete the filter column enclosure are currently the most critical issues to resolve. Can you take care of the pissing and moaning ?
I remember reading that someone queried other water districts _BEFORE_ SHOA purchased the CTP and was told the system was junk and expensive to maintain. But SHOA decided to go ahead with the purchase anyways...and now we are stuck trying to make it work and will be paying for it for a very long time.
Anyone paying any attention should be aware that Mr. Raymer interviewed someone with the Raymond Water Dept. late in the discussion of possibilities, and they gave the negative review. This type of system is a common system used, and it is not established that these systems 'are junk". The cost to operate is low, the footprint small, and the initial investment modest. The carbon material used is expensive to replace, and may need to be changed as frequently as 10 months.
The material is recyclable, and is heat-treated at very high temperature to make it reusable. The Water Dept. tells us ours needs replacing, but the out of control legal spending has left Surfside unable to afford the replacement necessary.
1:09 said "The cost to operate is low" but then says the material needs replacing and Surfside can't afford it. I don't know about you, but $60k every 10 months sounds expensive to me. And what is our water quality at now since they can't replace the carbon material? I think "junk" is the correct terminology...
I can't understand why SHOA failed to pull permits and get studies done. They harp on us every week in their Surf Sider to remind us to submit plans and pull permits for our projects, but then pull this crap! Got us some real winners running things around here.
Seems the more we spend the worse our water gets...deferred maintenance is not a good plan either...
At this point the big question has to be, is our water safe to drink? The mandated CTP that was forced on us by the state was to make our water safe. Now that the CTP has maintenance deferred I have to assume our water is back to the unsafe condition it was before the CTP was added. When was the last time water samples were taken and what are the results?
IS OUR WATER SAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION?
At this time, our water is safe to drink. It is constantly tested.
Ok then, was our water safe for human consumption BEFORE we purchased the CTP? I would think since the media hasn't been changed/backwashed/cleaned then it could be adding contaminants that were not present before the CTP was installed. Operating outside published procedures can't be good.
The real issue for us members is that we have been told so many different stories, we don't know what to believe. We contracted with North Beach to manage our water system. How did that work for us? We are asked to trust our directors. They are volunteers. Contracts require more than trust, they require performance. The Board failed the members at least once on safe water and no changes were made. They continue on with the same old, and we are expected to expect better results? I don't think so.
Water pressure is much lower than in previous years. I may have to give up on most of my gardening. Low water pressure is counterproductive to trying to make this community more attractive.
Does SHOA water pass federal standards? Is SHOA water safe to drink? Here are the answers...
https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/system.php?pws=WA5386470
For those who don't read the Weekender or Facebook...from SHOA::
Surfside Water System Flushing:
November 19th – 21st, 8 AM – 4 PM.
The Surfside Water Dept will be performing system wide routine flushing of the water system. Road signs will notify neighborhoods that flushing is occurring in their area. Flushing can stir up discolored and dirty water, can cause low water pressure, and can plug faucet screens. You may want to postpone running fixtures such as washing machines and dishwashers until after flushing is completed in your neighborhood. Flush discolored or dirty water through a hose faucet prior to using water in the home. If you have questions please call April Garcia 360-783-2037.
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