Why we must speak out...
“Every time we turn our heads the other way when we see the law flouted, when we tolerate what we know to be wrong, when we close our eyes and ears to the corrupt because we are too busy or too frightened, when we fail to speak up and speak out, we strike a blow against freedom and decency and justice.”
―
24 comments:
I agree with all, George, but it appears you have accomplished what the opposition has tried for years...killing this blog. I hope I'm wrong.
If the blog is killed, It is not because I did it, it will because the members did not care enough to "speak up and speak out". All it will take is just a few, like yourself. I have provided a venue where reasonable members can speak up and share information, along with what I can provide. What happens with this blog, is now up to those who follow it. If it is only viewed as a source of entertainment, then it deserves to go away. I have tried the best I can. I like the old sayings like...You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. That's kind of where we are today with this blog. There are other things that I would rather do than be at this key board or reading the trash among the good comments. Thanks for your concern.
I may not have said that right. I mean that all it takes to make the blog viable is just a few members like yourself, who will "speak up and speak out".
Yes the comments have certainly gotten fewer since people can’t hide behind anonymous! I hope discussions can continue in an effort to work together and quit the name calling and snarky remarks
I support whatever your choice is in management of the Blog. I'm fine with signing my comments. I think that virtually all of my detractors have remained anonymous, and many of those made by Riley.
I'm not sure if there are many folks interested in organizing behind some practical objectives. Talk of dissolution and recall of Trustees is more of a distraction than a realistic approach to improving our governance. But without increasing member involvement in elections and discussions of issues, practical measures to improve what we already have aren't likely to move forward.
The Board knows that individual members are writing complaints by the basket-load, but have no interest in stopping the manufacture of FAKE complaints. Instead, the BOT intends to create a compliance police force. This ignores the source of the problem in favor of feeding an adversarial dynamic of HOA verses members. On the other hand, all of the funding comes from the members they victimize by this ridiculous system of denial and exercise of power.
Yes, you have the authority to do this, and NO, it won't solve any problems, just assure their perpetuation.
I saw in the Tree Comm. minutes, a claim that they were putting together a list of recommended trees and shrubs that do not exceed Policy limits, supposedly both native and non-native varieties. Shorepines are the shortest native trees, with Vine Maples also topping out at about 25 to 30 feet. Willows are more scrubby and unkempt in appearance, topping out at about 15 feet. Chinkapins are a dry climate tree reaching about 30 feet, fairly contained, but requiring very specific conditions. Miniature varieties of conifers are either mutant varieties bred to be tiny, or suited to more tundra type conditions. Such plants are not really trees, nor easy to grow.
The obvious solution is to end the restrictions and settle on an entirely different approach. As the sand builds up and moves the shoreline west, trees of 20 feet or more do not block anyone's views of the far distant Ocean. Leave them alone, and they won't become 20 foot bushes that have spread out and filled in.
DO NOT PLANT WILLOW- especially in a septic dependent environment. These are the most vile of invaders to septic drain fields. The tree committee needs to ban this tree. ugh, from experience, even a neighbors ignorance can be costly to many.
NO WILLOW Trees! Please!
It's not likely that anyone has planted willow. It is native and widespread. It's useful to know that it can cause problems, so thanks for mentioning it. It's ironic that it is probably the only native tree that doesn't exceed 15 feet.
LOL, it gets taller than 15 feet, all willow species gets 35 feet or more. The root system seeks out water and travels 100 feet. You and six neighbors can have spendy septic costs from these thirsty destructive roots. And once they get that constant source of water, they get big fast, 60 feet!
As you can probably tell, it was a terrible experience, but not here on the Pen. I hope to never see a willow in a neighborhood again. The only place willow belongs is way out in the country, far from civilization, ��
Years back, Johansen suggest what I thought was a very good plan. He didn't feel it was right to force everyone to top their trees to random heights, but also didn't feel that the views should be taken away from the people on J Place that bought their properties for the views. He suggested that there be an imaginary line drawn from four feet above J Place to 24 feet above G St and F St. All trees could grow freely until they past that point. Any J Place property owner could file a complaint if the trees past that line, 30 degrees north and 30 degrees south from the center of the west side of their property, and then it would be required that the tree be topped to clear the line.
Most of the shore pines would never grow tall enough to pass that line except maybe on the west side of G and F Streets. This would protect the J Place views, decrease the tree costs for everyone, improve the overall appearance of Surfside, increase property values, decrease the cost of the shredder site, and make it easier for us to all live with each other.
I think it was an excellent idea. He was very good at coming up with win-win situations. He had a lot of good ideas.
I too thought this idea was a winner! Very good problem solving thinking. The result of this covenant as it is done now has resulted in bare lots, incorrect trimming, not to mention the damage to the environment.
Linda P. - Sometimes it is best to avoid being too smug. Admittedly I am not an arborist, and am not a walking encyclopedia. My comment about Willows was based on Willows I have been seeing on the Long Beach peninsula over the last 30 years. I have camped for years in the Park at Cape Disappointment, and the type of Willows you see there I estimate at a maximum of 15 to 20 feet tall. The same appears to be true of the ones around Surfside.
"Gardening with Native Plants of the Pacific N.W." says that Hookers Willow is native to coastal dune areas, back a ways from the beach. Scouler's Willow and Hooker's Willow are among the taller types of native Willows at 5 to 15 feet. There are apparently about 400 different varieties of Willow on the Earth, and the location is always a factor for plants, variety-wise, and individually.
I've made the point many times on the Blog, that there really aren't many varieties of trees that don't grow to at least 25 feet tall, and only some types will grow in sand, as the Shorepines do. Some of the smaller varieties of trees are ornamental, such as Hawthornes and non-native Dogwoods, but they are particular about habitat. Dwarf trees are either Tundra varieties or mutant hybrids, so not really trees, and not easily adapted to difficult growing conditions.
I agree that Patrick's plan is much better than what we have in Surfside, but it still might result in topping very mature trees which is particularly harmful. It would be complicated to implement, but I have suggested limiting the number of trees on a single lot, and the distance they are from one another. This would not require any pruning, but would require a survey and records kept. It would also require eliminating new shoots as they appear.
Had the community implemented limits on the number of trees per lot, heights could have been ignored. Thinning out some branches could have kept the wind resistance down and avoided the trees becoming huge bushes, which constant pruning causes. Had the limit only been 25 ft., specific pruning at a very few points in the tree's growth, could have resulted in nice trees that wouldn't exceed about 25 ft., nor require topping.
What we have now is an embarrassment and a shame. The HOA has mandated this disaster, and the BOT allows it to be a constant financial burden for anyone with trees on their property. It would be appropriate to end the current program, while a new plan is developed, and implemented at the HOA's cost. New trees, dead and dieing removed, and guidelines for care that avoid continuous care.
I also agree. It sounds like a very good idea. A win - win.
Sounds like a much better way to deal with tree heights. Cora. Lot better than what we have now.
Steve Cox, I don't appreciate being called "smug". You can keep willow on your four corners and around your surrounding neighbors. I'm sure the local septic and plumbing companies will appreciate the business. If you can't read my input as helpful, I'll just cease to post. Good luck with your blog.
I don't have any willow on my property, and I thanked you for your information. But "the laugh out loud" message says "you don't know what you're talking about" with three letters. As I explained in detail, my statement about Willows was accurate, not laughable. I don't have a blog, and you don't know me to be making assumptions.
I don't question that native Willows can do damage. Instead of taking offense, maybe read my comment again. Native Willows do not grow to 40 feet in height in Surfside. That was my only point, and that learning about native plants is useful knowledge in a community that tops all of the trees.
I just find you to be too dominating in this blog and it often appears you tirade on other peoples comments. Seems like this is the "Steve Cox show" with your long winded rude retorts. It really is a turn off and I, for one, have lost interest in this blog and the issues in our HOA because of your behavior here. Therefore, I'm OUT. I don't care anymore what kind of trouble is brewing and until it affects me, I'm not even going to pretend to be interested. Good luck to you but I got to go. I have a life outside of this blog.
Additionally, "you don't know me to be making assumptions" EITHER!
Sad when a person believes LOL is an insult. You really should get out more!
Unfortunately, the views expressed by Linda P, are views that many members have, not just about the blog, but Surfside in general. The issues can become heated and emotional for some. The disrespect shown for members turns them off to any participation. That is exactly what those in control want. When they can turn member against member, the attention is diverted from the real problems. THE BOARD. When they are not called out, members do not speak up or speak out, they win. They need to be held accountable for their actions.
I like Linda, have many times wanted to just throw my hands up in the air and walk away. Who needs this anyway? I have tried, and will continue to try and provide information for the members. I like Linda, get disgusted with the comments and thin skinned who are offended if anyone disagrees with what they say. I have tried to cut down a lot of the BS and attacks by changing who and how they can comment. It takes me a lot of time to prepare posting, and I don't have the time or inclination to be a "baby sitter".
If you don't like the comments, ignore them or don't respond. I hope members will return to the blog for the information I provide. I like the saying...Your entitled to your opinion, not your own facts. You are entitled to ignore the issues, but be warned, the next complaint letter may be against you.
Agree again George. Thank you for this forum to try and address issues. Linda P. I have wanted so many times to just ignore and walk away, but after what we feel
Was unfair treatment concerning our lighting complaint, I can’t with good consciousness stop trying to change the current atmosphere! Never in a million years did we ever think about someone driving by our house at night taking photos would be so stressful. After making adjustments and appealing to the board in September and again in November, we still do t know if we are in compliance! Trust me until you’ve gone through this, it’s beyond your imagination!
There's nothing rude about my comments, which are mostly informational and some opinions on the Tree Policy in general. Leave the Blog if you like, but you have no valid complaint with my comments. I'm often too long-winded, I'll admit to that, but there is no intention to put anyone down here.
You aren't being honest about what I had to say, and I can't offer you any apology for stating my opinion. I simply corrected your claim that Willows grow to 50 feet tall, but also thanked you for the information about their roots being extensive and damaging to septic fields and foundations. The conflict is of your making.
Thank you for your support Michael S. and Mike Riley, however I spent my entire life having to listen to "know it all's" and people who won't own up to their own bad behavior. I came here to the pen to have fun, peace, and to eliminate people like the one I spoke of above. I have a lot of advocate experience that could have been helpful to this mission but it's now my time to tell people they are wrong, ignorant, and don't understand democracy. It does appear this blog is for a chosen few (sorry George) and that's fine if you like listening to the same 10 people. I cannot suffer anyone who actually thinks LOL is an insult and uses it to insult back. It seems a bit immature to me and I retired from this type of silliness. Should someone want to form a more productive group, let me know, but for this one, I gotta go........
Here are some facts for those who think I don't know what I know......The last sentence is for you Mr. Cox.
Copied from horticulture references:
Wikipedia: Willow roots spread widely and are very aggressive in seeking out moisture; for this reason, they can become problematic when planted in residential areas, where the roots are notorious for clogging French drains, drainage systems, weeping tiles, septic systems, storm drains, and sewer systems, particularly older, tile, concrete, or ceramic pipes. Newer, PVC sewer pipes are much less leaky at the joints, and are therefore less susceptible to problems from willow roots; the same is true of water supply piping.[12][13]
Willow tree facts: Interesting Willow tree Facts: Rare types of willow can grow to the height of 70 feet. Most willows can reach 35 to 50 feet in height and develop the crown of the same size.
Michael S.
True that! Facts are at everyone's fingertips now. One would think if a person likes to refute, they would check before they make themselves look foolish. I know I always verify before I open my mouth.
I spent 30 years of my life, in a restrictive government agency, working to find win/win outcomes for both customer and agency. I believe I could provide helpful ideas without all the noise around subverting those ideas.
As for the current lighting issue: I find Joanne's Edison lights delightful, yet I don't know why the complainant or HOA covenants are against string lighting. Maybe if the opposition to those types of lights were made public, we could work towards a solution. Additionally, did the proposed change in the lighting covenant come about due to Joanne's lights? Again, I do not know and cannot form an objective opinion. And please, no Cox reply okay? ugh, I can't read anymore!
Trees: I Love Trees. And yes, Surfside looks horrible with butchered surf pines. But lets face it, there really is too many. But I would be devastated if I had to disrupt my landscape because someone complained about my tree. There are many solutions to this that no one is talking about. Can the HOA designate a small yearly portion of dues, say $2000 a year to provide acceptable replacement trees for those who have to tear a pine out? Can they work with one of the local nursery's to get trees at cost for this project? I'd certainly be willing to give a $1 a year for tree replacement project for personal property replacement trees. Or maybe we can work with a charity like Friend of Trees to provide options and tree planting assistance.
You will find there are many people coming from other places to live here who are full of great ideas. Some people just need to get out of their own head, quit shouting down at people and let the creativity flow until we find win/win solutions.
I'm probably still going to avoid this blog because of the aggressive "smug" retorts. I would love to see a volunteer member board to oversee these two projects and get some unbiased information outside of this blog from the HOA about these two issue.
This is easily solvable if some just stop forcing negativity.
Blogs consist of discussions, and discussions come from differences of opinion. Sometimes the differences of opinion come out of one or both parties basing their view on misinformation. If being told that your talking point is based on a misconception is too painful to endure, it is better to avoid Blogs in particular, and probably discussions in general.
Some bloggers only seek to hurt people's feelings, and those kinds of comments are getting deleted these days by Mr. Miller (thank you !) It's never my intention, and discussion is all that is worthwhile here, in my view. That doesn't mean everyone must dance around a subject rather than speak their mind, just to be reasonable. I'm always reasonable.
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