Thank you to the member who submitted this to the Board and this blog site. I have no idea who this member is, but I hope they used their name when submitted to the Board. Obviously a lot of thought went into preparing this document and worthy of consideration by all.
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24 comments:
I don't like that everyone must comply in 5 years. You can't get 400 members to vote on anything. The board will never give up their power hold. Are you trying to get a compromise that the board will pick out and pass parts of what you propose. I vote, NO change. Leave it the way it is. It is a phony made up issue.
I agree with 2:15, no changes are needed, much less the one in place. No one wants it other than those proposing it. If not presented to the board by a large number of members, it shouldn't even be considered. Next thing you know they will want sidewalks n bike lanes. Lets get clean water done first. They don't seem to be able to do that. They have had plenty of time n cash, n cant get it done.
I don't want any part of this. Designating this as a "Dark Nighttime Sky" community is an extreme measure that ignores the fact that this is largely a very dark community most of the year. You will only rarely see clear skies at night in Surfside, and sky gazing at the clouds at night can easily be done from other vantage points. It is not a common guideline for residential communities to require "dark Night skies".
Lighting needs to be addressed entirely from a practical standpoint, or you will not have adequate safety. Add to that, that many members consider this a retirement getaway, and many owners are well over retirement age. Clamming dates are also often during darkness hours.
The process needs to start with assessing what owners already have, and amending the current covenant to try and clarify details, such as lower wattages and using care in positioning directional lights.
Eliminate entirely, the stuff about property lines and shadows. If area lights are limited to 60 watts, and all other directional lights as well, careful positioning should be required to avoid undue lighting beyond the property lines.
A consideration would be to allow a period of say, ninety days for owners to adjust wattages, check directional lights, and replace fixtures that produce glare. Require that some kind of globe or valance shield the sight of the bulb to prevent glare.
* Require that each owner secure the approval signatures of neighbors directly affected by their exterior lighting, recognizing that we ARE NOT SEEKING TO BE A DARK NIGHT SKY community, but avoid intrusive lighting in general, while still allowing area lights for safety. A due date for submitting info would be set.
More practical: If requiring signatures seems too impractical, ask that owners verify how many exterior fixtures they have, and the wattage, on a form that is then submitted within a specific time frame. So maybe 90 days to make corrections and submit the form verifying wattages.
Compliance can then proceed as usual, attending to any complaints that may be filed, and the compliance person is not faced with an insurmountable task.
We cannot have a safe community after dark in this community, setting dark sky limitations on our residents. I respect that some members may desire that, but it is not practical in this community. Dark Sky opportunities can be sought out in specific locations by owners who long for that experience.
String lights are enjoyed by many owners, and Surfside is often a party destination or time of gathering friends. The wattages are very low, and akin to pathway and garden lights, which are also a nice effect, and subtle.
The less complex the standards, the less confusion in enforcing and understanding the limitations. Limiting fixture designs has little to do with excessive or intrusive light use. Wattages, and required valances or globes, and consideration of neighbors in positioning directional lighting, addresses all that needs to be addressed, allowing safe lighting on walkways, driveways, and entrances. The simpler the better for everyone.
Gotta admit, both previous comments are on the mark, and simpler.
I'm a bit of an astronomy buff and when we come to Surfside to our RV lot, I am often out at night with my binoculars and star chart, sitting in a lawn chair gazing at the sky. I know that a lot has been said about the Dark Nighttime Sky, but the reality is Surfside already has a Dark Nighttime Sky! There are two places I routinely go to that are dark enough to view the Milky Way Galaxy, between Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Adams and our lot at Surfside. The fog plays more of a role than any house lighting does, and fog often moves into Surfside in the evening, but sometimes lifts later and the planet, star, meteor and galaxy viewing is really phenomenal. I kind of wonder if any of the people wanting the dark night sky view truly understand what they already have without any additional lighting restrictions? I totally understand not wanting the neighbor's 900 Watt outdoor security lighting shining into your bedroom window. But I will be honest, when we drive or look around Surfside at night, the biggest light source seems to come from people's big screen tv's that fill up their living room windows. Funny, but true. The light from Portland does somewhat affect the night sky, but from an astronomy viewpoint, I believe the biggest light pollution in Surfside appears to come from the Aberdeen/Olympia area. I can rarely see anything in the NE sky because of it. So I really don't think our community needs strict lighting restrictions or any type of Night Sky Designation, it is plenty dark enough for awesome sky viewing due to it's proximity to the ocean. Don't believe me, turn your tv's off, download a star chart app to your smart phone and head outside when the fog lifts for some of the best night sky viewing in the United States...even with fairly lax lighting restrictions.
Please submit your comments or comments and edits to Surfside in writing, email or letter. Let's make them hear from us.
Alison, please send this comment to the BOT before Jan 18th, they need to hear your point of view
Yes please Alison! Yours is the perfect point of view. Also at night when you drive up on the demarcation line, most houses don’t close their blinds or drapes so the light spreads to the outdoor visabilty!
I finally have to respond to just one of Cox's statements. I am going to limit it to just one because that is all I have time for. It concerns his repeated claim about the constant fog and cloudy weather we have here. In my opinion, this is the type of statement that only a part timer would make. As a full-timer, I can tell you that the night skys are clear here more times that you would believe. That is why I purchased my telescope years ago. Ive spent many nites looking up at the planets and camped out on my back deck watching meteorites fly. There are many nights here that the sky's are clear for star gazing.
You want to argue againt the lightimg covenent fine, but please limit your weather forecasts. If you are finding that the majority of the days you make it down here it's cloudy maynbe, just maybe, the clouds are following you.
This has nothing to do with a dark sky for most of us. It is pretty simple J place people do not want the sunset screwed up with a bunch of lights or trees. That is why they did not impose there wrath on people west of J.
Hello Alison:
Thanks for the star chart app idea. Please recommend a star chart app.
12:53. Thats the best u can do? Obviously u dont think there is too much ambient light, so why comment?
!2:53....I've never said that it is constantly foggy and cloudy. I've said that there's a lot of intense weather happening in this coastal area. I often stay a week or 2 at a time so I know what the weather is like, and don't need a lecture. The subject is lighting, and my comments have been to the effect that, safety often requires that we have good lighting when coming and going from our Surfside abodes. 90% of homes have area lights, and for a good reason. This policy would end that.
I've lived in Portland, Vancouver, and the Olympia area for 47 years. I have been a long time camper, backpacker and mountaineer for all of these years, though only car camp any more. What I have noticed living here at the Coast, is that the nearly constant winds keep the weather moving so that it tends to be constantly changing - much more so than inland. I'm sick and tired of the Cox bashers all looking for an edge.
If more people paid attention to the HOA and their actions, and spoke out against bad behavior on the BOT, we would not be looking at this ridiculous Proactive compliance b.s. Most of the year there are only a few hundred folks in Surfside, most minding their own business.
1:35
I think you mean "East" of J Place. If that is what you mean, I agree, plus there are several committee members who live on the East side. Looks like they got them to "go along" if they were not included.
An issue this important, should be a decision of the members. They could include a pole with the News Letter and let the members respond by a simple Email, or on line. If they don't respond, then they can suffer the results.
It gets a little old with those who get on her and use terms like: the majority, most of the members, some, few, none, etc. Truth is...we don't really know.
The whole process of this new lighting covenant does not pass the smell test. Having been the Board Secretary for several years, I am a big believer in following the rules, an open process and transparency. It is apparent to me that none of this has been done.
Wentt outside tonight. No cloud cover or fog. Had a beautiful view of the moon, Orion’s Belt, Big Dipper and the Milky Way. All with theses dastardly lights blazing away. We already have our “dark at night”. Anything else is just some lesser persons attempt at control.
I can't wait to find out if you all stop this lighting amendment. I give you a 5 percent chance.
I really don't think the board will change any of the language. I give that a 25 percent chance.
And so doing nothing accomplishes what ? so it will be satisfying to you to see an honest effort at insisting member's preferences should prevail - fail ?That's a sign of giving up. Without dissent, you can't have democratic governance.
Attention all lighting complaint writers. The HOA office has string lights all around the eaves. Sure they will pass it off as legal decorations, but as each bulb is connected with a continuous set of wires, it qualifies as string lighting. Get those pencils out and start writing.
Note not only has the covenant meeting not been mentioned in the new Surfsider, but it is also left off of the calendar. Perhaps there is some legal action that can be taken as they are obviously suppressing information vital to the membership. Why do they go to such lengths to satisfy just a couple of Board members and a couple of their spouses?
Steve C, walking around the other night on G st I notice 3 tall sodium lights at your condos, will these be effected by the new light covenant change? Personally I welcomed them, it was way to dark on the street elsewhere.
I noticed in the Surfsider today there was nothing on the January calendar on the 18th except the meeting! So far in my conversations only one person was aware of the proposed covenant!
Exactly why they didn't want online voting. Keep those fools out of the loop! I sure wish I could attend the "secret" meeting. This corrupt mindset of the ones running the show in Surfside has convinced me of dissolution as the only cure for this virus. BTW: George is absolutely without reservation MAN OF THE YEAR FOR SHOA. Happy New 2021 Blog Host. We need ya more than ever!
JoAnn, me also, my neighbors don't have a clue, and many will have to change lights that have been on thier houses for years, they were surprised and wondered what was going on, I told them to show up at the meeting
8:53....They were changed to LED over a year ago. They are owned by the County, and we pay for the electricity on 2 of them. I think that neither are actually on our property, though the 2 face our large parking area.
But as you say, most of G St. is pretty dark and there is a large area from the playground to the maintenance warehouse that has no house lights, and the 4plexes are surrounded by tall cedar fence. That area includes the previous pumphouse lots, the defunct well field, car bridge, canal, and wooded lots next to the Store and strip mall all totally dark at night.
I agree, the lights are a welcome sight in the distance on a dark night, and they help light up the popular 317th trail and G St. ped. crossing.
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