Don't get sucked in....
Before this discussion begins, several points need to be made clear.
I am not a lawyer and you probably also are not. Comments made here are opinions based on,
experience, known facts, rumors and to a large degree, common sense.
If you are presently a Board member, you need your own attorney.
If you are a victim, you need legal advice from a lawyer.
New on the Board?
Don't get sucked into a cover up. Even if you were not on the Board or had any role in illegal actions that resulted in fines and/or penalties, be cautious now, your involved now.
Ask an attorney what you should do?
Resignation may very well be your best option, especially if your being made a part of a cover up and with holding of facts. Are decisions being made in the name of the whole Board, where you did not have a voice or vote? I can not say this loud enough...Do not lie to Federal investigators. This is also good advice on any issue.
Document every thing..
Your written notes become a legal document. They can be used in court. If you don't remember the specific date or time, state "on or about". If you decide to resign, state on your notes, your reason for the resignation. Example: I will not be party to a Board that acts in violation to our governing documents. Etc. Etc. Another term for this is...CYA (cover your ass). Keeing your own notes should apply to all Board members, committee people and especially, employees.
Be careful and be wise.
We have seen many times where a cover up can be worse than the offense. Just as we are seeing now on the National scene. Will North Beach and Surfside act in collusion for a joint cover up? Shared guilt? We are in a mess and all indications are that it will only get worse.
The victims...
That would first be those exposed to the health hazards of asbestos.
The membership bearing the costs.
Board members excluded from the truth and participating in decision making.
The public image of our HOA and property values.
The enjoyment of our community.
Our safety?
What would I do?
Same as I have done twice. Resign. I will not be associated with an association that puts themselves above the needs and desires of the community that they are elected to serve.,
We have, not all, who serve on the Board and Committees for the right reasons. They are being taken advantage of, and they don't deserve it.
I am not an attorney and any advice I give should be viewed as opinion only.
Good luck to us, we are going to need it.
42 comments:
Why all the doom and gloom? Where is this coming from George? Where is the documentation or other proof of what is going on? I read all this stuff here on the blog, but not a word from SHOA to the membership about possible litigation or investigations? I'm sure it's really happening, but I for one would like to see some proof of all this crap.
I've always wondered why the minutes of the board meetings includes an entry that says something like, stop the meeting and go behind closed doors for private meeting. Why does the board keep secrets from the membership? Legal matters seem to be the prime reason they give...and to me, legal matters that affect me should be out in the open, not kept secret from me.
8:57 must be new here.
8:57.... You have seen the Chinook Observer with the front page headline and article about the Federal investigation of EPA violations regarding asbestos ? Why all the doom and gloom ? You are either very poorly informed or slow grasping the seriousness of our situation.
The Board needs to establish a mandatory procedure of requiring full Board review and a vote of approval for ALL legal consultation sought by any Trustee or Office personnel, with approval of increments ($5,000 ?) and a record of the matter the consultation was regarding. This stuff needs to be carefully monitored, as the president has shown no restraint in legal spending this year - with $75,000 or more wasted on the lawsuit the BOT withdrew.
If the BOT had any conscience they would award Mr. Johansen and the other defendant their $10,000 in legal fees, necessitated by the suite filed by Williams and the HOA in Superior Court, and then withdrawn. This was over shed roofs on RV lots. Mighty important - mighty urgent.
The Board has the authority to adjourn meetings to meet in "closed session". The matters allowed for such meetings are very limited, and include discussion of legal issues, individual owner accounts or violations, or discussions of individual Trustee's or employee's actions. There are various requirements regarding procedures, such as requiring that any vote taken on a "closed session" issue, be taken in open session.
Given that the legal matters concerning asbestos are a community issue, and the burden to resolve County, State, and Federal charges is on the entire community, I agree that all discussion of these legal issues should be presented in open meetings, and open to member attendance.
The Board should also make this determination at the next meeting in January. I wonder how much money Mr. Williams will spend on legal consultation between the last BOT meeting and the January meeting ? There are no real controls currently. The controls in place have been ignored.
I asked the BOT if they will document this information on the SHOA website during the November 17 Meeting. Gary Williams responded that they will post what they can. I have not seen anything posted yet. That's obviously no surprise to anyone on here that is not a BOT member.
I would urge Mrs. deLeest, Mr. Olds, Mr. Winegar, Mr. Turner and Mr. Raymer to demonstrate their dedication to the member's best interests by proposing all discussion of the Asbestos Matter be presented in open meetings. They should also demonstrate their commitment to policy changes that will prevent free and unlimited spending by the president or HOA in any sense, on legal consultation, requiring accurate records be kept of same.
Here's a thought for you all, we lived where the area had an as asbestos problem, the stuff was mined in and around our town for 71 years, they declared an environmental hazard and made it a Superfund cleanup, it's been going on for 18 years. Your home values are going to go down for some time, we lost 75k on our house. As far as giving a break to the workers and north beach water, don't let them use the I didn't know card, that's BS, the dangers of asbestos pipe has been taught by DOE for years, I was certified in 1993, they taught us way back then, so yes I call BS. Hold all that knew accountable. As far as dissolving the HOA it's a good idea, what do they really do, but before you do dissolve it let the legal process happen, they can't play dumb. I've also reached to friends at the EPA out of Denver region 8 they oversee our area, gonna give a heads up on the goings on around here, it needs to stop. One last thought SHOA, were all watching, and you damn sure better take notice and quit your corrupt actions
Re: December 15, 2018 at 12:36 PM
Might be some loss in property values but not due to asbestos but rather the management of the association.
You are correct those involved in removing the pipe from the ground, knew the rules and regulations regarding how to handle and dispose of the pipe. Such a stupid act to do to the good folks of SHOA.
You’re an embarrassment. Those handling the pipe are not into suicide. They and Bill Neal were not well trained. Don’t ass-u-me anything. Bet they wish they knew now though.
Conveniently, the Board chooses to not meet in Dec, so the soonest opportunity for members to voice their concerns in a public meeting will be Jan 19th. Until then, suggest you send certified letters to the Board addressed to the office. If you have an attorney, have he or she send the letter on your behalf, expressing your concern as a property owner and HOA member, regarding the financial impact on the HOA and potential devaluation of your property. Send a copy to the WA Secretary of State, which has oversight of non-profit corporations. We should also consider filing a class action lawsuit against the HOA as well as Trustees individually, for their lack of oversight and mismanagement.
Did you read the Goose story in the weekender? Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha! Oh my gosh! What loony wrote that!?! If the lead goose kept leading the gaggle into situations that damaged the rest of the gaggle, guess what. They would stop following the leader. I think the author is a silly goose.
This author is suggesting that we follow these leaders in spite of all they have done. Between the asbestos mass, the unnecessary tree cutting, the harassment of the shed owners, the constant misrepresentation of the laws and covenants, the waste of legal fees and probable increase of our insurance rates, these geese have lead us into bog after bog. How much does it take before the majority of Surfsiders realize that these leaders are not geese but rats.
Silly, geese love bogs.
Lesson No. 5: If we have as much sense as geese, we, too, will stand by one another in difficult times and help the one who has dropped out regain his/her place in the formation.
This is from the Weelender Gagal of Geese story, I thought I read that the Business Manager was moving to an other state to hide.
It will be interesting to see if anyone addresses the vast legal mess the community is in at the next meeting of the Surfside Board of Trustees. Vice president Jim Flood, in his 12th year as a Trustee, has not attended in -person in many months. He has clearly not attended Water Dept. Committee meetings either. Why is he still on the Board ?
We are not Geese, and we don't need any more ridiculous analogies to make excuses for people who want positions of authority but refuse to accept the responsibilities that come with it.
I am beginning to wonder about Surfside's attorney and the Board President. Legal advice should have been to settle the Johansson mess far before it got to the level it did. Some times you have to hold your nose and settle because it is a good business decision. The worse scenario is to let personal feelings alter your decisions. It was apparent the President had a grudge to settle with Johannson at our expense. I have had two dealing with our attorney friend and came away with a feeling Surfside could do better. I hope the board would intercede and demand that all board members be present with any further legal matters.
Well just got our bill for our HOA dues, no Information about the ongoing asbestos issue. Go figure, think I`m gonna hold off, need to find out how much their gonna spend on legal fees at all of our expenses, I say resolve the HOA. And start over or leave the HOA shut down
Anyone see the letter to the editor in the Observer today? It's on line and mentions George as a malcontent. Is he?
From the LTTE in the Observer: "There have always been a few like Pat Fisher or George Miller (Surfside Chat) who seem to have nothing better to do than micromanage our council and management staff."
Yesterday SHOA water and North Beach water had a training class by an out side vendor in our board room. What I am concerned about is are we paying for North Beach's schooling.
Reading the LTTE submitted by Leonard Miller, I found myself wondering how he acquired all his information on the management of SHOA? Perhaps some of you know him...is he somehow involved with the operation of SHOA?
SHOA has not released or made public any information that would support any of the claims he made.
Never heard that name before
Remember, a LTTE is the same as stating opinions on this blog. Identity n facts are not checked. Boils down to you can’t deny fines etc...me thinks someone is very nervous and trying to deflect blame. Pathetic n a new low.
You are correct, it probably was a fake. At best it was somebody trying to protect their property values.
Quick tax sifter finds mr Miller lives on G st
8:35.... George was the BOT Secretary, and had clerical duties related to his station. He was an independent voice on the Board, personable, but not shy about voicing his opinion. That has not been well tolerated by the very conservative individuals who have kept a lock on the status-quo in S.S. politics.
The LTTE was probably one of the Trustees on the hot seat, writing under a fake name. The Blog offers breaking news on Surfside issues, mostly from George, that is not offered by ANY Surfside publication. He is a valuable resource and his goal is to bring the truth to the membership, while the BOT fights to avoid transparency.
George has great integrity that defies the label of malcontent. He has more important objectives than to just stir-up disagreement. Thanks George !
Steve, The LTTE was writen by an identifiable person named Miller who, like you, lives on G st. Not a fake person as most of you want to think.
Still an opinion n not necessarily fact, def biased. Facts are facts, n fines n lawsuits are fines n lawsuits. Funny never seen name on this blog. Only voiced opinion outside of shoa. Sounds like a mouthpiece. Course since shoa board member lawyers won’t let them say anything. They actually have an excuse now.
Wow, talk about fake news, just ck google earth, piles of pipe have been appearing n disappearing for years. Drysawing pipe all along. Definitely a bot mouthpiece. What a joke!
The individual would benefit from not making such stupid remarks in the newspaper, adding their name. The only way anyone knew about the Federal, State and County investigations and fines prior to the Chinook Observer article, was George's Blog. That is a public service to owners who have yet to see a single word published by the HOA regarding this massive management failure.
That amounts to the same result as being lied to straight-faced. No one is willing to step-up and admit to the HOA's MANY mistakes, and cover-ups of incompetence.
I have met and talked with this man in the past, so not fake. Although many here find it hard to believe but there are people who actually enjoy living here and don't share your views. This is apparent every time elections come around. Deal with it.
Me too. Thanks George!
I haven't heard anybody say they don't enjoy living here. You deal with it!
Only interest here: billable hours. I too have had discussions with the attorney and his office - wasnt impressed
The only thing the last 3 elections have shown me, is very heavy questions about their veracity. My personal belief is that the fix is in. The people you support are crooks. Deal with that.
to 8:45 - and you probably beleive that we didn't land on the moom either? There is no fix, no crooks, just an HOA that is run by people that are in over thier heads and now have run into trouble.
Nobody is going to jail, the fines will be reduced, you'll see.
Steve Cox said...
The individual would benefit from not making such stupid remarks in the newspaper, adding their name. The only way anyone knew about the Federal, State and County investigations and fines prior to the Chinook Observer article, was George's Blog. That is a public service to owners who have yet to see a single word published by the HOA regarding this massive management failure.
Well said Steve. The only issue I have is where's the proof? I mean, yea, the Observer ran an article (did they fact check anything?), and George has posted items here on the blog, but other than that I have not seen any legal documents that back any of these claims. So who is fact checking the claims? Again, not saying they aren't true, but I can find nothing on the EPA site or county site that proves all the doom & gloom being presented here. If SHOA was somehow notified of pending investigations I would think it should be mandatory to inform the members. But the office and board seem to think it's best to keep it secret. Obviously they forgot who they work for...
What kind if fantasy world do you live in?
It's not all apple pie and rainbows out there.
Please try to assimilate the facts: we have an unscrupulous Board who pursues their own self interests to our detriment. These people knew what they were doing. Saying 'it ain't so' wont make it go away.
I'll take my reality over yours any time.
Please refer to posts in the rest of the blog. George is doing an excellent job getting documents out, and sharing the word.
He should be commended by all for his hard work!
I’ve often thanked George for his diligent work in keeping the non elitists informed. Hate the thought that he may give it up.
Thanks George!
FYI: just got my dues bill. Funny how 3 separate times I didn’t recieve ballots but amazingly enough, my bill always makes it! I’m so p—-ed to know where a lot of this money is going. BOD must resign now if they have any bit of integrity left!!! You are shameful humans.
Unfortunately, there is no integrity to be had here.
We are virtual hostages, held to an organization that operates without scruples or honor.
If they will not take their grubby hands off of our association, dissolution is the only answer.
Post a Comment