Can it be fixed?
In my opinion, the answer to both questions, is yes!
The fix we are in now, has been building over years. To do nothing to make the needed corrections can be worse than the current issues and problems. It is in the hands of the current Board to take decisive action now. They need to step up and have the courage to turn things around. Will they do that? It may be to late, but they need to try and send a clear message to the members that business as usual is no longer acceptable. That message should also be made clear to the regulatory agencies that are investigating us right now.
We have allowed the following people to make decisions and take actions without authority and/or full Board and member approval.
James Flood, Gary Williams, Kirby Smith, Laura Frazier, Gil Gonzalez, Bill Neal and North Beach Water District.
While some are more responsible than others, they all, to some degree, are responsible for the major problems we have today. Some actions were simple mistakes or just following orders while others were deliberate actions that were made knowingly violating our governing documents as well as County, State and Federal Laws.
A criminal investigation is currently underway on individuals subject to criminal prosecution., Will that investigation apply to the entire Board? I don't know the answer to that. I hope not. The entire Board, according to reliable sources, has been advised to hire individual legal representation. This may explain their reluctance to do anything at this time. It is like they are all waiting for the other shoe to fall. That might be the right course at this time, I don't know.
Again, in my opinion, the Board, other than those mentioned above, should meet or conference with the association attorney, and discuss what they should, or could do in regards to the above named.
As followers of this blog know, most of the information revealed here, has been kept from a majority of the members, but unfortunately, there are indications that this will become more public. This puts a bad face on Surfside that is not deserved by most of the members. The members deserve and expect that their dues and assessments will be well spent and they have placed their trust in the Board to act in the best interests of all members. That trust includes professional management of our association. The members have met their obligation, the Board has not.
The above is my opinion and there are many legal issues that I have no authority or experience to advise anyone. My opinions are based on my past experience of involvement with Surfside and review of past and current documents.
28 comments:
George:
Do you know when the criminal investigation started?
This information implies there is a separate criminal investigation of separate individuals. Do you know if that is true?
Extremely Frustrated
It appears to be true.
I wrote a more complete answer to your question, but on second thought, deleted it. I have seen attempts here to get information from me on what is happening with the investigation. I will say this...Those who are worried, should be.
What tends to be forgotten by those who post comments here, is the seriousness to those that have been exposed to the health hazards of asbestos pipe. That is the real shame.
Thanks for your quick response George.
I really appreciate it.
Also, thank you very much for your work establishing and maintaining this blog.
Have a good day.
I agree with your assessment George. The best place to start addressing what needs to be acknowledged as a crisis, is by the Board members you have mentioned initiating action - either to ask Flood and the others mentioned to step down, or asking for a Special Meeting of members to bring all of this out in the open.
The Trustees who have been key in driving the pipe replacement, heading the Board, and serving on the Water Committee, have failed in their roles to show leadership, and take responsibility for oversight of Surfside's own utility. This went on for a number of years, so cannot be explained away as "a big misunderstanding". The community doesn't need an apology, we need these individuals to step down. The BOT can be reduced to as few as 3 if necessary.
The notion of dissolving the HOA is far too complicated. We have a large amount of community property and a million dollar Water Dept. all of which requires continual maintenance, and a staff to do it. Whatever direction we go, new personalities need to volunteer, and it will require some time and dedication to retool our board and management of HOA employees. We can more easily strip down to basics, and restructure with new people.
If the community can demonstrate an ability to take this situation seriously, and take significant steps to restructure, we may be able to stabilize the value of Surfside properties and our reputation begin a recovery.
Nothing can happen without a new board of people who have never served before.
I think people better wake up and smell the coffee. If indictments come from the investigation. Surfside is going face potential liability from employees. We may face it any way. Jury's care about who knew, when did they know, and what they did when they did know. A recent case in Portland where a tenant fell through a rotten deck and a Multnomah county jury awarded 20 million dollars in the case, The case is being appealed, But is an example of a jury award that would most likely far exceed Surfside's liability coverage and force bankruptcy. The board should step up and take measures now. In my opinion the board should hire a qualified manager to run operations and employees, The board has had there fingers in operations far to long, leave the board to deal with policy issues. Those who knew should be fired and board members forced to resign from the board. Unless we signed an agreement with North Beach, I do not know how they escape some of the liability. Surely the board would not have signed an employment agreement that limited all of North Beach's liability. But who knows what the board is up to since they will not say and to date it does not appear that anyone is being held accountable.
I agree that dissolution is extremely complicated. However, continuing in the present fashion is leaving us all financially liable for mistakes being made by people we know we cannot trust. Not sure if I have a final answer, but I wouldn't take it off the table, as one way or another, the current management needs to go.
Thank you jesus for making it possible for Kerry and me to escape the current madness of SHOA. We miss the ocean but not much else. I have always taken the Blog version of events cautiously but if only part of the scenario's are factual I escaped just in time.
Good work Larry. Amen for you.
I bought in April 2018 and my realtor from Lighthouse Realty never disclosed that there was WA state L&I and criminal investigations in progress. I would not have purchased my property.
1:28 - that's because there wasn't any L&I or criminal investigation goin on in April 2018, this all happened a few months ago.
Don't be worried, enjoy your investment, the ocean is still here, the roads are still passible, the electric works, the water is running that's what you bought it for anyway wasn't it? or were you trying to flip it, if so, then too bad for you.
By the time this is all done and overwidth your investment will be fine.
Hi Larry,
I got good news for you. Your old house is for sale. You can move back and run for the Board. LOL
George - I am being gently harassed to run for the treasurer position here in Green Valley ! I'm currently on the board of our greater Green Valley men's club, volunteer at the American Legion and our Community center and oversee our Neighborhood Watch program. Do I need more on my plate. As for our former home I like the changes they have made to the outside and the realtor shots of the inside look great too. Was really chilly today with a high in the mid sixties. We had our first dribble of rain since September. Two shirts and a fleece to go outdoors. So cold during the night that my pool freeze protection equipment came on and interrupted my sleep. All on the same income we had at the beach! Now that is sweet. One of the best VA medical centers we have ever encountered and 30 minutes away instead of nearly three hours (Portland/Vancouver). Life is good.
Good for you and Kerry. You both worked hard to make Surfside a better place, but like so many here, you were not appreciated and given the chance to succeed. Thank you and Kerry for the service to our country. The best to you both.
It is sold George. Had two offers and one was taken. Name something Larry did that was so memorable other than just seconding motions at meetings.
All's fine, don't worry, be happy!
Sounds like another board member posting out here...
Since the water is the only thing you mentioned that the Board has actual responsibility for, let's go there.
Thanks to the highly questionable quality of my water, I recently have had to spend close to a $1000 to put in a filtration system for my home. The step was taken only after multiple conversations with Surfside Water. That young lady is very friendly and responsive, but she can't fix the problems created by management. The board does not manage the water business any better than any other facet of the association.
I do not intend to get sick from questionable water while they are figuring this out. Our current board president is been around for over 10 years. Do the math.
Why would any non board member in their right mind defend these people? You are just looking foolish.
This may already have been asked and answered, but I've missed it. My question is this: why is Surfside HOA running a water dept anyway? Why are we in the utility business? Has anything ever been floated about selling it? Or perhaps separating it from the HOA to limit our liability? Like many here, I'm on a limited fixed income and I'm afraid of the HOA fees going up, up, up to cover these dingle head's incompetence.
George, how do we find out more information regarding this "current investigation", there is zero information on the Surfside website or at the monthly meetings I've attended. Although I have tried to participate within the SHOA, I found my input or information was not wanted in any way. Our questions fall on deaf ears and we as members do not have a method to update the full membership as the Weekender is cut off from input too. How do we find out more? David Tollefson
David, thank you for your question that is on the minds of many. Unfortunately, because there is so much involved in a legal process, many, including myself, are limited at this time in what can be disclosed. I expect that those who now control the association will make an even more attempt to keep information from the members. As charges are filed and fines made, they become public information. It takes a great deal of effort to find that information. I am encouraged to see some members, besides myself, are digging for that information. The local newspaper, the Chinook Observer, is working also to make public what is happening here. An informed and responsive Board would make a big improvement. I expect that the Board and individual Board members have been advised by their private attorneys and the association attorney, to say nothing.
I suggest you and others write a letter to the editor of the Chinook Observer demanding answers. At present, about the only information disclosed, is here on this blog. Public exposure can accomplish a lot. When you write the Observer, suggest that further information can be found on this blog, "A Google Blog, Surfside Chat". Thanks for your question, it is a good one.
One additional point of information...
It is easy to write a letter to the editor. Just click on the :COMMUNICATION" page on the left. Scroll down and click on letter to the editor and your set up to write and send your letter. One or two can make a difference.
I have submitted several public records requests so far to Pacific County, WA.
https://co.pacific.wa.us
I haven't received any response yet from the Prosecuting Attorney's office pertaining to a criminal or civil investigation of one of our BOT members. I'm not sure if I have make a public records request on this matter to WA state or some Federal entity.
The permit fine was County. The L&I fine was Washington State. The criminal investigation and upcoming fine for improper pipe disposal is EPA, a Federal agency.
Seems like shoa broke laws in all jurisdictions. Three for three. Aren’t we proud!
Include ethical and moral standards.
Thanks George! I'll submit an EPA public records request today.
Records gathering is getting kind of fun. I've never gone through this before.
Thank you, George; I'll follow up.
Be aware that when seeking public records under the federal Freedom of Information Act or similar laws, there are exceptions which preclude the agency from releasing documents. At the federal level this includes documents pertaining to an on-going criminal investigation. I have not checked to see if this applies to the state or county, but chances are it does.
Yes, good point Deb. At this point, I'm hoping EPA and others are able to confirm an investigation exists.
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