Nov. 17, 2018....The Good, The Bad, The ugly....Delete the Good. There was none.
Budget passed with 192 for and 70 against
Electronic Voting failed with 123 for and 143 against
Kurt Olds appointed to the Board...6 for and one abstain (Larry Raymer)
Present at the meeting:
Gary Williams
Larry Raymer
Rudd Turner
Annette dLeest
Kurt Olds
Present by phone:
James Flood
Chris Chandler
Mark Scott
Absent:
Scott Winegar
Others Present:
Heidi, Laura, Kimber, Gil and Neal
The meeting room was filled with many members present. Some arrived with their proxy votes in hand. They were able to vote on present ballot. The proxy votes by neighbors, brought by those present, were rejected. I do not know how many. Apparently, many members had questions and comments not related to the budget, such as fines and legal issues. By all accounts, it was a low vote from members.
The Budget meeting lasted from 9 AM - 10 AM
Board Meeting was from 10:15 AM - 11:45 AM
I will be posting additional information later ..
85 comments:
It's interesting that only half pf the Board managed to show up for this meeting. We can assume that they do not want to answer questions about the wasteful legal spending that put the HOA at least $75,000 in the hole, preceding the stop work order on the CTP enclosure building which was not properly permitted, and learning of the enormous expenses related to the asbestos debacle.
Stumbling into a legal entanglement with the State and Fed. EPA, and facing liability for the health of Water Dept. workers is just about the most incompetent series of mistakes that could have been made on the part of our HOA. WE can only guess how much money Surfside members may have to come up with just to satisfy the mandated requirements sure to come our way.
Word is that Mr. Olds is a bully. Do we really need another Trustee who is full of himself ? The Board had better step lightly from this point on, be very polite to regulators, and tell the truth !! is that possible ?
At this point, I can’t imagine wanting to serve on this board, other than a gigantic ego. Maybe newly appointed/elected members feel immune, and hope to inherit power. Frankly, I don’t think there will be anything left to rule.
Well folks, you got what allowed. If you don't go to the meetings, if you don't vote, you get what happened yesterday. There were no good explanations about the fines, we can forever forget any changes to the tree covenants with the unnecessary elevation of Mr. Olds to the Board (a person too untrustworthy to legitimately enter the elections, instead submitting to a "secret J Place campaign"). He hopefully will recuse himself from any actions having to do with his wife's tree committee. You knew the proxys were not going to be counted at the meeting so why did you screw that up. The electronic voting lost by a small margin, perhaps if you would have attended and voted, we would be partly back in the 21st century. The budget looked good, but if you really looked at it, you would see that the expenditures were only moved to the right one year, so expect perhaps up to a 20% hike next year. You allowed employee pay raises, perhaps not a bad thing, but do you agree with bonuses? You did not complain about the $65k fee for the annual replacement of the carbon filters in our already failing water system. You didn't blink an eye when it was learned we have already spent over 160% of our budgeted legal fees for this year, and it isn't over yet and unlike many other expense, that line item for 2019 was increased by 50% over this years budget (why?). You allow to have the Board run by an individual who touted his qualifications in part by stating he was schooled in LEAN management techniques but has proven he wouldn't know the Toyota Method if it hit him in the crosswalk! So you didn't educate other members as to what was happening, specifically about the asbestos problem and the consequences, and that this was an opportunity to correct some of the malfeasance -- so your stuck with it.
Because if you don’t know about this blog, you would not have a clue about any of that. You HAVE read the Weekender, web site, and fb page? Not a peep.
If all the no voters had not submitted a ballot, just saying, why vote at all. No change whatsoever has happened since I have lived here. Same old stuff year after year.
But getting more n more costly. That will get the apathetics attention, but too late by then.
I was told by a reliable source at the meeting saturday that the epa fine could be as much as 150,000.00
Plus civil suit by those affected.
And that is if the investigation doesn't uncover more buried asbestos. They are not just investigating who but how much.
Welcome to our world Mr. Riley. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
This is why we are seeing a large turn over of property in surfside. I know of several that have sold, just to get out of here. The covenants, poor management and corruption has lowered selling prices. Members need to seek a property tax deduction from the County because of the above.
I am a member who had another member hand deliver my proxy and it was declared invalid. 9:01 is right on. We had two different realtors look at our property and we were SHOCKED at what they would list our canal properties for. Its evident that the reputation of corruption in HOA, the covenants and negative atmosphere of Surfside has killed our property values. So much for investing your money in an endless money pit. Sad thing is not many know a out this blog or what is really going on in Surfside office. Finally, a total disgrace to name Olds as a board member. Now the Queen of the notorious Lasar Committee has her King joining her on her broom.we too, we also, Mr Riley, have buyers remorse. Hate to tell you but this has been going on 11 years or longer.
How do you know there is a "large" increase in sales?? Where are the numbers to support that claim?
I'd like to ask Mr Riley why he didn't listen to George when he posted that all proxies must be in on the friday before the meeting? You sir, with your arrogance cost members who trusted you their vote.
Rather than quibble about it, we have to accept that the asbestos mess and huge fines the community is having levied on us, is a burden we have yet to learn the monetary total to. This is a situation that prospective buyers should stay away from, as our liability for the health of exposed workers will likely be a long term commitment.
What attorney fees will the membership be expected to pay to protect our interests ? It appears that the contract with North beach makes us equal partners in the management of the Water Dept.The contract also appears to make Bill Neal responsible for everything the Dept.does, when that isn't realistic. He is still an employee of both entities and his role obviously requires oversight. WOOPS !!
Members can only hope for the best, but this could get very ugly for the unsuspecting membership and new residents. Trust was put in the Trustees and system, while there was no one taking responsibility to monitor proper practices at the Waterworks.
Ignore 8:15 n 8:05. We do, They defend the status quo. No matter what.
Go to town(ocean park or long beach) and ask locals about Surfside. Bet you all the tea in China not one person says anything good about purchasing there. BANKRUPTCY is our only hope of a solution to this S---show!
Obviously the 1740 members that didn't vote like it here and didn't feel the need to vote. If you have issues, they should be with your fellow members not stepping up and voting. If its so bad, why aren't all members feeling the need to vote?
gonna be some great buys around here once members start the selling wave! Can't wait. All these issues will eventually get resolved and the ones who stayed and/or bought in at a discounted rate will be rewarded!
Overall it's a drag, but it is want it is.
9:30 Are you seriously defending a Blissful Surfside? Get it srraight: MEMBERS DO NOT KNOW WHATS GOING ON. Very few know about Georges blog. SHOA is in the worse shape in its history. No one can argue that.
10:17 you get it straight, they don't care what's going on! They come for the summer and live their lives somewhere else. They get a bargain here and that is all that matters or else they would show up in droves. To them it is blissful. They have the same ability to find out what is going on as we do, they chose not to participate, take it up with them. Are you out informing your neighbors about what's going on?
Our community has stumbled into the worst possible kind of mess. We are looking at an enormous screw-up that will cost our community vast sums of money in County, State, and Federal fines, attorney fees, and possible large payouts to employees who were exposed to asbestos due to incompetence of management, and the audacity of the HOA.
Surfside Trustees and employees are being criminally investigated, our new CTP columns are on a slab that may not be properly engineered to remain stable, lack of proper permits for building in a wetland (fine:$10,000) resulted in a stop-work order, so the plant is open to Winter weather with no protection from winds. The list goes on.
The lack of interest in voting has long been a problem, but is not due to those owner's total satisfaction. To assume that would be naïve. It is true that more member involvement would help the community, but in this case, the trail of mistakes and incompetence has been going on for years.
"If it's so bad" ? It's bad and it's only going to get worse. Courts will be involved, massive legal fees, on and on.
I am not "seriously defending a Blissful Surfside" I am just stating the facts. This is a drag, I don't feel like shoveling out extra monies and will wait until I find out how much before I decided what to do, but most likely won't be selling, but I will consider buying up anything I consider a bargain.
To 1020, I am a part time person that averages about 60 days a year here and plan on retiring here when that time comes. I have told all my neighbors about the blog, unfortunately I only think one has decided to read it.
from 1032...and I should add, all except for one of my neighbors live here full time
Most members have no clue. Ever read, fb page, website, or weekender? No info at all. Seeing surfside info sites, I’d see no real reason to vote either.
All board meetings are recorded except when they go into a closed sessions to discuss legal or employee matters. They record the motions after the closed sessions. You can go to the office to listen to the recordings.
A couple of interesting sidelines from thee meeting. One person asked about the permitting of the water plant building and the answer was that Surfside didn't have to issue a surfside permit because it is not on surfside property. We don't own the land we use to run our water system? Who does? North Beach? Who are we paying rent to? Secondly, if you looked into the finances you will note there is a $12k plus check written to Pacific County about the time it became known that there had been no county permit for the water building and the fine was levied. Could this perhaps been payment for the fine? The BOT Pres said that the contractor paid the fine. Did he really? Or did we as it was ultimately the BOT's responsibility for oversight.
The contracted company that was suppose to get the permit reimbursed SS back for the fine and the cost of the permit.
The water system is on SS owned land, but it is not in SS proper.
Deb, Patrick and members on the technology committee, all saw the problems and that it needed to be fixed. George and Thomas Rodgers also knew. Except for George, they have all been done away with and shut up. He continues to speak up and provide information even with threats to his safety from people like the Old's. Time to get rid of this mess.
Re: "One person asked about the permitting of the water plant building and the answer was that Surfside didn't have to issue a surfside permit because it is not on surfside property. We don't own the land we use to run our water system? Who does?"
So this person says the the deep well and booster facilities properties are not part of surfside proper. The same could be said of the RV storage and the compactor. This excuse if true and if it was stated by a sitting BOT member they need to be removed ASAP.
The Board and water dept management still have to answer for all the stupid that has been going on for a long time.
I'm beginning to realize why Gary Williams and Jim Flood have been hanging around and bouncing the President spot back and forth. I think the cover up is so big they can't afford to leave.
Mr. Riley should run for the board. He would have my vote. And probably many others. That is the only place where a difference can be made. We need someone to get in there and clean house. Younger is good and mad as hell is even better.
MR Riley, you may be smart to hold off building, but the fee/fines and who know what else will still be divided up evenly between the member regardless of how you use or what you have on your property.
Local realtors have been informed of the legal problems with the EPA and L&I and are now ethically responsible to relay that information to any prospective purchaser here in Surfside. Particularly the potential for an employee suffering a disease that could originate, even years from now, from exposure to asbestos. That could run into the millions. I strongly urge anybody with property for sale to contact a lawyer and determine their options, even perhaps suing the HOA for a loss in property value. It is a shame the BOT saw fit to keep these problems from the members. Perhaps they can be sued individually. We will know more after our meeting with our lawyer. It may cost me some, but it will also cost you unless you can join together and fight as a group. Mr. Riley, you are on the right track.
12:21 Then I am sure that you won't mind posting a notarized copy of the reimbursement from the contractor to the HOA as shown in the audited books and perhaps a copy of the check.
Too bad board members on this blog don’t have the power of their convictions n use their names.
Fact check...
I have the financial statement ending Oct. 31, 2018 in front of me. There is no entry of any funds received from a contractor for fines or any other item. I think that is just wishful thinking on someones part, misinformation, or a deliberate false statement. If something like that happened, don't you think there would have been conversation about it?
Wonder if we can get rid of the HOA?
11:19, 12:21 shortly after SHOA paid the building permit fine, a (now former) member of the Board, heavily involved with the finances of SHOA, Stated he would not require the company to pay us back. Rather, he would come up with A “project” that they could accomplish without charge. So what we got was something we didn’t need for a cost of at least $10k. No repayment was made, George is correct.
Mr Riley, you have failed to realize that there are over 2 thousand members in SS and a lot of them bought here for the rules. We want the HOA, so I believe you would have a fight on your hands to try to dismantle it. You have the ability to sell your property and not live in an HOA, why dont you do that instead trying to tell 2000 people they have to do it your way.
Here we go again, the same old story. Don't like the message, attack the messenger. 7:53 is the same creep who does not want anything other than the status quo. "You knew the rules when you bought here. Don't like it, sell and move". Same old crap. FU 7:49
8:32,classy lol I like the rules that is why I bought here, why is that a reason to go vulgar? I know I am not the only member who thinks this way.
Mr Riley had the option not to buy in an HOA, why did he if he doesn't like them?????
Guess we know how cache was paid for. Total b.s. and prob Illegal.
SS = Surfside Sucks
Answer to 6:22 is YES. The Old's, the Packman's and deLeasts are the real picture of SS. If they don't like changes, they should sell and move away. They were told when they bought here that covenants can change.
The state of the community is dire, and the bad news is likely to keep coming for a while. The dissatisfaction owners are expressing is based on the fact that our membership has been stuck with a very real legal disaster which is the result of runaway incompetence by the Board and Water Dept. management.
This is the classic example of lax management more interested in hassling a few RV owners over sheds, than monitoring our biggest responsibility, the Water Plant. It wasn't just a slip, but a case of chronic apathy and incompetence over several years.
Only the very foolish can pretend this isn't going to have a big impact on the community, and that it is a simple test of owner devotion to stand by our Trustees and hold our shed restrictions dear. The community has been sent down the toilet and you're declaring "God bless our covenants !" We have no idea how expensive this mess may become, and changes will have to take place in this community as a result.
Seems to me that the membership speaks volumes by not voting. No response is a response. They do not deem it important enough to vote. If that is the majority speaking then it seems those that want change should seek it elsewhere. Plenty of property for sale on the peninsula where you wouldn't have to worry about any of this.
Members don't vote because they don't know. As long as the dues have little increase, they think everything is ok. That's exactly the way the board wants them to think. When this all falls apart, they will rightfully say "We didn't know".
The "majority" have no idea what a mess we have because it is being kept from them. Those who "worry about any of this" are the only ones who can save us from people like 9:50 I vote to end this HOA and those who don't want it to change or end can be the ones to move away and leave the rest of us to enjoy beach life without a dictatorial rule. Covenants gone, selfish people will be gone.
I beg to differ with you. The no vote is an expression of apathy, fear of retaliation, or most likely the lack of any knowledge of what is occurring here. An earlier post spoke of Mr. Williams self professed knowledge of LEAN management,implying he was skilled in just how to manage. It appears the only management type he knows and applies is the "Mushroom method". That is to keep people in the dark and feed them s..t.
So Mr Riley didn't do his due diligence and now wants everyone to make changes for him? Sell your lot, you'll be happier
Careful of your accusations, I did not break any laws. I am happy here, you are not, makes sense that you be the one selling.
Just what we need on the board, and angry egotistical bully
Angry egotistical bullies, definition of our BOT
To the individual that keeps on chanting "you knew when you moved here" or "if you don't "like it, move" I would chance to say that probably 80% of the folks who buy here don't fully read the covenants. They count on people having some common sense, not stuck on an ego trip. Anyway, if you would know what you were talking about, you would realize that the posts in this section have little or nothing to do with covenants.l They have to do with the leadership of this organization keeping important information from the members and perhaps from it's employees as well. So if you want to address the issue, your going to have to come up with a different mantra, you are only proving your stupidity, but then we know that already.
1:00 you might consider taking your own advice, you sound like the other bullies here, if we don't agree with you because we like it we are the bad guys. I read them, I agreed to them, I like them...there are more of us than you think
Ignorance is no excuse to purchase a piece of property and regret the decision later. Ignorance is no excuse for failing to respect the covenants in an HOA. Ignorance is no excuse for the Board members to fail in the responsible management of the HOA. Damn, I am fed up with the ignorance that I read on this blog.
1:21 is correct. There are many more of us who do the responsible stuff to know what the hell we are getting ourselves into.
Then I guess since you are fine with status quo.and happy with what you got into. You are one of those the rest of us should blame?
I blame myself for moving here. Free water and garbage. I now pay twice as much and the water is worse. This place is more like a concentration camp than a homeowners association. Sell and move? No way. I and others are going to fight back at you selfish power hungry bastards. I hope they rot in hell.
2:55 that 50 bucks a month too much for you? No where cheaper on the peninsula. try getting water and garbage for less that 1200 a year outside of SS.
BTW, Ilwaco and Long Beach both had AC pipe issues in the last 2 years so apparently we aren't the only ones here that are having that problem
great. just great. another guy who is hell bent to stir up trouble rather than putting energy towards solving the problems in our hoa. we are not selfish or power hungry or bastards. we simply want to enjoy our property at the beach with as few problems and traumas as possible. some on this blog are obviously looking for a fight instead of looking our for the welfare of the entire hoa.
Folks you still just don't get it. We are not talking about tree heights, RV lots or anything that is even remotely covered in the By-Laws and/or covenants, so no reading of those documents would contribute to solving this problem. There are those who continue to engage in a urinating contest, but you are directing your energy in the wrong direction. We are talking about negligence and quite possibly illegal activity that will affect all of us in the form of reduced property values, for a long time to come. If you want to sell your property, you must fill out a disclosure form. If you do not disclose the legal problems and potential future suits that may be brought by persons harmed by this negligent activity, then you remain liable for those fines regardless of the time past or where you are. We cannot count on the management or BOT to inform us of what is going on, we CAN submit a FOIA request to the EPA. The L&I report is damming enough and it was held from us. You can't fake it and say "I didn't know" because now you DO merely by virtue of being a property owner here at this time. To those who say "you should have known", there was no way to know without those in a position where leadership was/is unwilling to provide and share that information. We have a common enemy here who will "win" (even though they will "lose" as well) unless there is an organized effort to change our leadership. Note: No words about trees, sheds, RV's committees, et.al. I had planned on living here for a long time, so I am very vested in a solution for this problem. There will plenty of time to address any other issues you deem important in the future, but none with the pressing potential consequences as dire as this.
4:26 is right on. I totally agree and could not have stated it as well. I hope, another potential Board member. Beware of those who keep trying to change the subject. It is nothing more than a diversion tactic. The consequences at this time are far worse than what has been disclosed here by me and others. As 4:26 stated, this is a dire situation. Probably even more than he/she realize. I wish I could tell you more at this time, but the truth will come out and there is probably not much we can do now that will help. Thanks to Williams, Flood, Neal and Gil, the damage has been done.
Is Surfside or the wellfield and wetlands going to be a superfund site?
Re: November 20, 2018 at 5:53 PM
I would think not, the issue is only inches deep and the asbestos will be reduced to normal levels. The contractor and the EPA will make sure of this.
This whole thing was just so stupid and peoples certifications and jobs needs to on the line. There is simply no excuse for this!
How can you suggest that this community doesn't need some serious changes made ? That's the paranoid fear that has lead to this financial disaster, and that is what we have here. Anyone who doesn't grasp the extent to which this is the result of total incompetence of the BOT and North Beach Water has their head up their backside.
All of this was totally preventable, and reversible, had anyone taken any interest. The incompetence of the Board lead to the pissing away of about $75,000 on the lawsuit that was withdrawn, and now the community is on the hook for County, State and federal fines. These same stupid mistakes and lack of oversight will also lead to serious liability for the long term health of all employees who were exposed significantly to asbestos.
This could lead to lawsuits brought by employees, members, between North Beach and Surfside - this is the "perfect storm" classic pitfall for HOAs, where one lawsuit leads to many others. We have no clue what the consequences may be, and it should lead to blame laid on Flood, Williams, and Neal, as well as North Beach.
But the perennial favorites such as Flood have allowed this debacle to happen and helped it along by ignoring any semblance of oversight or management. The entire Board has contributed to this disaster, but the Board leadership is particularly to blame. What does the term "leadership" mean folks ? This HOA is seriously screwed up and the usual excuses just won't get it.
We could end up on the hook for millions of dollars in reparations sucked out of our operating budget, and the only hope that the community won't be bankrupted is the very large member base. So all of the people who are getting badmouthed for not voting or participating, are our best hope, because they are dues paying members. They're going to be angry when they find out what has been going on while they snoozed.
Right on and well said. Our best hope may have passed. A successful HOA requires competent management and participation by the members. We have had neither. It is a shame, but it is what it is.
Is Surfside Water going to be put in receivership?
That could happen
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
For all in Surfside that are considering selling their house/property, here is what occurred last week and I believe is the first of many to come. A prospective buyer made a full price cash offer on a house in Surfside. The prospective purchaser had heard about a potential EPA/asbestos problem. He contacted the HOA Manager to gain more information about the "problem". The manager did not provide what the purchaser deemed to be adequate information concerning the "problem" The prospective purchaser then decided to contact his attorney (who deals in real estate). After that discussion, the prospective purchaser withdrew from the purchase. So the "problem" may well have a far reaching effect on us all. The seller lost a cash sale, the realtor lost a commission and the purchaser has gone elsewhere. As a side note, now that the realtor knows of the "problem" he/she are ethically bound to inform any other prospective buyer. Maybe the powers that be will be a lilttle more transparent with the members?
Asking part of the problem (Business Manager) about the problem? What would you expect for an answer? If the prospective buyer could have been told that the President and Vice President had been removed and the contract with North Beach had been terminated, maybe that buyer would not have backed out. There is no indication that Surfside is trying to solve problems long term. They only project an image of trying to cover up the problem, not correcting it.
Whole board should go, I see no dissenting opinions from any.
I completely agree. Let's get that done. How do you propose to achieve that outcome?
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