No further comments allowed.
We do not get to see how the individual Board members voted on resolutions until the minutes are approved at the following month's meeting. In this case, because there was no regular Board meeting in July, the June minutes were approved at the August Board meeting. This is a several months delay before being published on the Surfside web site. We get a brief summary published in the Weekender that is short on details and only indicate if a motion passed, failed or was tabled.
I am always troubled by members who abstain on a vote. They were elected to vote on issues, not abstain. They should be required to state why they abstain and it be a part of the record. There are only two reasons to abstain....Conflict of interest or not enough information to make an informed vote.
A special thanks to our Recording Secretary, Kimber Holtermann, who spends hours attending and recording the Board meeting and providing mostly accurate minutes under the most difficult conditions.
Click on each page of the two page report for a larger view.
162 comments:
I agree with your statement concerning abstaining and a requirement to explain why. I feel also one should give their reason for voting no. At this point neither is done and it is quite frustrating.
If we had a real board president, he would go around the table and call for each member to speak to an issue. They could then explain their position. When a vote is called, he could do the same and they could, if they wanted, state their vote and why. He treats the Board with the same lack of respect he does the members. Every Board member should be encouraged to speak when the motion calls for discussion. Recognize each by name for the recording. That is required for audience comments. It should be the same for the Board.
Well I guess we have never had a real board president because none since I've live here have required the Trustees to state their reasons for a no vote. And I'm sorry, I have witness board members treating him with a lack respect also, one recent one in particular.
But of course that is OK.
It is small in comparison to the way the current Board is allowing its President to run wild. We are a democracy, not a dictatorship!
Respect is earned.
We are constantly subjected to decisions made for personal reasons, not the good of the community or the organization.
But of course that is OK.
Dear 9:20 You have stated an opinion not necessarily a fact. It is true that the current President has not shared information about his decision making process. With the legal expenses, I believe that he is seeking legal counsel and following that advice which is not a wrong thing to do.
It would make a huge difference in the attitude of the members if the Board selected to operate in a more transparent manner in order to foster trust and support from the members. Instead, the longstanding Board members have chosen over and over again to manage in secrecy sometimes obviously in attempts to cover up mistakes. Heaven only knows how many errors and expenses we have never become known to the general membership. I am referring particularly about Williams and Flood. I do not understand why they continue to get the votes despite a very poor record of managing Surfside. The money wasted on unnecessary equipment, projects and poor employee job performance that is rewarded with bonuses and raises is thoroughly shameful.
Because it’s all about protecting the view. Screw everything else.
Dear 10:15,
You have a wretched attitude and a closed mind. It is not black and white. There are other issues, precedents and opinions that deserve attention just as much as your own. Try being a good neighbor in your community rather than hammering your opinions as if they are edicts from a higher power.
10:30.... WE have 9 Trustees who all have equal authority. None can independently make HOA decisions, or alter or set policy. The president, Gary Williams has been making independent decisions regarding legal matters, and at times meeting in private with PART of the BOT, those who agree with him, and give him the green light to do what he wants.
We are talking about numerous instances, over $60,000 in legal spending, none of which is valid and compliant without review and approval by the 9 Trustees who he shares authority with. It IS black and white, and you and others are happy to soothe your minds by pretending it is alright. Same is true of the Trustees who sit idly and allow it - including Larry Raymer.
Williams does not deserve any respect after his narcissistic behavior. When is enough, enough with his dictatorship attitude? No one with any sense could defend this is compliant. This has nothing to do with Deb, Patrick or anyone else he has taken a disliking to. I wholeheartedly believe this is why so many post anonymous. A real fear of retaliation in Surfside.
"I wholeheartedly believe this is why so many post anonymous. A real fear of retaliation in Surfside."
I have been reading this type of comment for years. Before Williams and I'm sure it will continue long afterwards. Unless of course the anonymous choice was to go away, which we all know won't.
Face it, most people post anonymous so they can hurl insults and make false claims without reprisal for their words. Simple as that.
5:38, no different than the rest of us and anonymous for the same reason. U not afraid? Prove it.
5:38 some do hurl insults etc., but I believe the reason for anonymous is that we all have a stake of personal property related to this HOA. You can't just leave if poorly treated.
If you said the wrong thing, maybe you will be the next focal target for complaints drummed up on your property? Maybe your plans of building that deck would be rejected because someone on the architectural committee doesn't like your opinion. Maybe you start a committee just to have it abolished because others didn't like a non related opinion you had.
It only takes a few examples of that behavior for the general population to become aware it is possible and therefore protect themselves by not mentioning their name.
My opinion has affected my receipt of ballots in mail. Too coincidental that two times I haven’t received them. How can you defend that 5:38?
Well put Stick.
Dear 8:44 Are you sure that the office has a correct address for you?
If you build what you say are building then there is no problem, its when you lie that you get bit back in your own butt.
Hmmmmm! They ALWAYS get the billings to me. THINK ITS A PERSONAL VENDETTA?
Btw: address has been the same since we took ownership in SHOA.
Don't kid yourself, everybody posts anonymous because of the fear of reprisal. That is a real fear. If you don't think so reference Patrick and Deb.
One of the real issues facing this association is the fact that the board of trustees is supposed to serve the association not vice versa.
They have no trouble finding you to present the bill, but the lack of ballots and the failure of the organization to get them to their members is a real issue I spoke to several members who have not gotten ballots or havehad their proxies come up missing. This leads me to question the honesty of the election.
Real fear, that's funny! Look what the current board has to hear from the Blagg bandwagon, the Patrick Party or this blog, again its the pot calling the kettle black!
Ask not what the BOARD can do for you, but what you can do for the BOARD.
10:55 Pffff. This is an HOA, not a country. That's it and that's all. Fact is it's technically a business. And saying that it has guaranteed income from it's customers, so it is a bit hog wild as well see. WOuld be the other way around if the "product" wasn't forced.
This board only makes you feel you should serve them because that is how it's been developed. It is intended to be the other way around. To serve the customer, us, the paying owners who are members. We put faith into this board to speak for us and make good judgment on our behalf. Most seem to say on here this is slipping.
10:54. You assume that any member that doesn’t agree with how SHOA is being run is part of a group. I my own person. I belong to no group, but let me tell you this: this HOA IS A MESS. Office personnel are rude and incompetent and BOD is a farce. They let Williams run the entire show and they sit back and say yes! Squandering of funds and behind doors decisions being made by Williams. Sounds like he’s got the BOD attorney in his hip pocket. Oh yeah, and it’s your dues he’s wasting!
Don't forget the terrible influence of Flood on Williams. These two should find a new hobby. They have worn out their welcome in Surfside.
Reprisals 10:16? You mean like what the Blagg posse did at the annual meeting? The only thing missing was the pitchforks and torches.
While you're responding with the usual Williams and Flood stuff please explain what Mr. Winegar was guilty of to deserve such disrespect. Same with to 1:14's comment about the BOD sitting back and saying yes. Winegar and others didn't do so when it came to voting on the termination of the Tech Committee. I guess they didn't attend the secret planning meeting, Right?
And now the Attorney is part of it too? Thanks for the laughs.
The only thing Deb did wrong was lose to a stacked deck, using proxies in a highly questionable manner. The attorney has always been part of it, if you don't think so look at the billable hours. Your blindness is glaring.
One more time, the legal expenses are due to a few members who decided to break the rules to have things their own way. 9:19's view of things is so far from the truth. More legal expenses are also due to the mismanagement of the water department by the board and the contracted water manager in regard to the asbestos in the old pipes.
What do you think will be accomplished in this lawsuit ? And by the way, this has nothing to do with a "few members". This is all about Patrick Johansen, who is no longer a property owner in Surfside, and is no longer on the Board.
How does the porch on the shed on this new owner's property effect your happiness in Surfside ? I find this particularly mysterious, as it is difficult to see unless you walk onto the property. Do you seriously think this will "teach Johansen a lesson" ?
Legal costs have already exceeded $60,000, and the first Court date is not until next month. As was mentioned by an attorney on this site, the costs can soar, with potential for appeals, and an on-going case that could cost Surfside well over $100,000, before any appeals.
Anyone who thinks this is justified has their head up their backside, and has no sense of self-preservation. There is little likelihood the HOA will prevail, and in that case, the HOA will almost certainly be instructed to pay Patrick's legal costs as well.
One of the community's largest budget items annually, is the "mile of pipe" project, at $150,000 a year. We are talking about pissing away that much on this stupid misguided attempt to prove something to an owner who no longer lives in this community !! Absurd.
1051...and I am glad that Patrick is no longer a member, he has cost us dearly...he can make his trouble someplace else, which just happens to be just off Sandridge road. I'm sure his new neighbors are going to be pleased when they find out who just moved in next to them?
Get it through your head, Patrick has not cost us a dime.
It is the self interest to your board there's cost our association over $60000 and counting. Apparently you approve of that stupidity.
Don't try to shift the responsibility, put it where it lies.
Get it through you head 11:54. Most of the legal expenses are due to an aggressive member who decided to add on to a shed in a manner that was not approved by the architectural committee. THE RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THAT MEMBER(S) WHO FORCED THE HOA TO DEFEND ITS COVENANTS AND POLICIES.
That member took us to court a year after the complaint had been dropped!!!!!!!!!!! Read the minutes!They told him they would not pursue it any further, then he took them to court in the spring.
Exactly 1:15. Instead of doing an appeal like everyone else does he went running to a lawyer. Then even after the board dropped the complaint, which I though they shouldn't have done based on him not following the rules, he sued to get us to pay for that decision.
He chose to change his plans and then not get them re-approved by the Arch Committee. He chose to go to a lawyer instead of appealing. If he would not have made those selfish decisions none of this would have happened.
His gang keep overlooking those facts.
Sorry, no matter how many times you say it nothing was questionable about the proxies. They were used just like they are set up to be done. People give their consent to someone they trust to vote for them as needed. Plain and simple.
I've notice you have never said that Patrick and Blagg shouldn't have used theirs, right? So who is blind here?
Typical hypocrisy.
My, havent had much to do today, have we?
Ive told you before that volume does not equal quality.
The true hypocrisy here is your constant defense of a board of trustees the does not act in the best interests of the organization. You conveniently forget that they have acted in a dishonest fashion, not even abiding by their own rules. Support of that is true hypocrisy.
What the vast majority of us remember is that we have a small contingency of trouble makers who want to change things for self serving purposes. This contingency has been devious, secretive and done their damnedest to avoid following the rules. The greater hypocrisy rests with the trouble makers who will stoop to any means to get what they want. They can't be bothered to learn the laws, ordinances and covenants or to engage in fair play.
I totally agree 7:00, that’s exactly what the board has done. Thank you for your support in voicing most members opinion of our board.
How do either of you know what the vast majority remembers or what most members opinions are? You know your own opinion and that is all you know. The rest is wishful thinking on your parts.
Well 11:10, unless you're new here people talk about what they think the majority feels all the time. Blagg and her bunch sure do. The one thing I feel and agree with those above is that the true majority of those living in Surfside do enjoy it here. Every few years or so you get some newbees show up and try to turn it into what they want, those of us who like it here be damned. Thankfully we have the numbers and the people willing to donate their time to volunteer. Something they don't.
Pretty obvious who majority is. Sure isn’t the ones killed tech Committee, heaven forbid getting more opinions from owners. That’s pretty much been shut down. Minority holds power by lack of transparency n backroom deals. And the fact most are disgusted with the whole situation. Reality doesn’t apply in surfside. A lot of bitter old has beens, grasping for power. Not only in shoa, but other organizations around here. It is what it is, and won’t be changing anytime soon.
6:36 AM your comment about "the numbers" is truly laughable. Approximately 15-20 per cent of members vote and probably 1/10 of one per cent participate in our hoa.
Please try to understand that this isn't all about trees and RV's. Its about fairness. As association, the absolute minimum we should expect is fairness and honesty. We are not getting it.
The fairness is in the free will decision to purchase property in an HOA that has covenants. The unfairness is in the members who want to change things to gain more advantages for themselves while destroying the rights previously established for others. The honesty is that these members are trouble makers who should find the decency to move away to a place that they find more suitable to their likes and dislikes. Plain and simple, you are not getting what you want because you made a bad decision about where to buy property. Move on and quit whining and threatening the members who are willing to cooperate with the HOA.
Right on 12:08! We are fed up with the hate and expense that members like 10:27 generate.
Are you a trouble maker because you want a better HOA that is fair and honest and see the need for professional management? They are a minority group because so few really know the problems that exist. That is exactly the way the few controlling everything want it. An ignorant membership serves the board and are on the board. The only trouble being made is against the status quo. We need more trouble makers.
7:00.... You are in dreamland. It isn't possible to verify the things you are saying as it is completely fabricated. There is no compliance crisis in Surfside, there is no organized resistance to the HOA, no Patrick "Gang", no one who can be shown to be flagrant and frequent violators. Members who disagree with the policies of Surfside, and in particular, the Tree Policy, have good reason to disagree. The USA is built on individual rights to disagree with written laws and policies, to protest, and to change laws and policies.
You label anyone who expresses discontent or open opposition to policies as "troublemakers", where our American documents call these folks good citizens, and these rights NECESSARY to the creation and preservation of the Union. You are lacking a basic understanding of how democratic governance works, and are unwilling to accept personal responsibility that these freedoms require for their preservation.
It is laughable that anyone thinks the HOA needs to "teach Johansen a lesson". He is GONE (by-by, so-long, farewell, tootles), and we will never have a clue what impact the lawsuit may or may not have on him. The Courts prescribed mediation at a cost of about $100, and the BOT/Williams turned it down. This could have, and should have been resolved and put to rest.
Members who agree with the tree covenant have good reasons to agree with it. The majority is supposed to rule in the USA. The manipulative nature of the flag waving by 12:24 is nauseating. You are free to disagree but once an issue has been decided by vote, policy and practices that is the rule. If you don't like it, find a place that you like better instead of continuing to hammer away and create discontent where you are. The majority is fed up with the whining and stirring up of trouble.
Seems like Blagg tried her best to form an organized resistance to the HOA so think again as you key in the lying drivel that you place on this blog. You don't have the high ground nor the righteous stand. You are a self serving trouble maker. Own it!
There is no information available to determine what the majority of Surfside owners want policy-wise. The Tree Policy was established by the HOA about 40 years ago or more, and members did not vote to approve it then, and a community-wide vote has never been taken since.
How ignorant are you, to think that there is anything wrong with dissent ? What is certain is, there are laws and policies that YOU don't like, and surely bitch about to those who will listen. But no policies, no matter how sinister, are ever changed by complacency - which you expect everyone to live with.
Yes, I am a better citizen than you - because I understand and respect citizen's right to dissent.
Can you understand that your neighbors are sick and tired of your dissent? We don't want to be bothered with your BS. Get it? Perhaps you need to learn a bit about being good neighbor as well as being a good citizen. BTW, I seriously doubt that you are what might be considered to be a good citizen much less a better citizen. Interesting that you think others bitch about things they don't like but you merely dissent. You appear to think very highly of yourself while you engage in putting down others.
There has been no hostile uprising for more than 40 years over the tree covenants because most thinking members have a clue that there are several good reasons for the covenants. Many members can actually think beyond the boundaries of their own selfish interests to see to the welfare of the whole.
Tree height never voted on, was in original charter by the developers (realtors).
What do you want to bet that there was a vote by the developers regarding the tree height covenants?
The developers seeded the West side with pine trees so they could sell lots that were bare. People only wanted lots on the East side because they had trees.
Change the tree height covenants or quit complaining. The tree issue has been beaten to death on this blog. Blah Blah Blah
You bet we are going to change them. We will do away with them altogether. Then you can get on the blog and cry us a river over your view going away. We will see how you like the shoe on the other foot.
Some members will pick a fight over anything just to feel alive. There are plenty of opportunities in this world to plant a tree where it would do some good. Flourishing trees in Surfside is a matter of overkill. So many of the trees are crowded too close together which creates unhealthy, spindly trees. Most lots require tree clearing prior to being usable.
Thanks for the information 7:11 PM. So your saying that if you want to put a home or RV on an undeveloped lot, you have to clear some trees, but not all? How can a flourishing tree be a matter of overkill? I thought a flourishing tree was a healthy tree. I hope your not just picking a fight to feel alive. If so, you need to get a life.
Done with you 7:56. You are not worth anyone's time or energy.
I always find it interesting that the people that are calling for fair this or fair that are ignoring the fact that they expect us, who came into this HOA knowing what we sign up for, to give up our expectations. I chose to buy in Surfside and on the west side for a reason. I like for it to remain that way. You shouldn't have bought here if you don't and instead bought property next to Patrick on Sandridge.
I hate to be blunt but after the theatrics at the annual meeting I feel it's time for me to do so.
It is good to know that everything in surfside is so good, there is no need for change of anything.
Why do those trouble makers keep complaining? They should have known, when they bought here, we don't allow change. Just because they bought here and pay the same dues, they think they are entitled to fair treatment. That's not the way we do things here. If they had talked to people outside of surfside, they would have found out the truth. They made the mistake of listening to the realtors who painted a false picture. They should have asked why property is so cheap here? How come so many places for sale?
Dear 11:43, we hope that your place is for sale. Your on and on and on whining is pathetic. Don't like the rules, get out.
members with big houses and members with little houses all pay the same annual fees and assessments. is this unfair? beach property is a bargain on this peninsula. where else could an RV user pay so little for ownership of beach property with such easy access to the beach? count your blessings RV users and quit complaining.
Purely obvious why there is the dissension, hostility and prejudice against RV property owners. 10:26 is proof. He/she/it states rv folks should just be counting their blessings they are allowed in Surfside. You are pathetic and happy I don’t live next door to you at the ocean.
Hostility to RV owners? Come to my area and ask my RV neighbors if they have experienced any hostility towards them and you will get a no. It may be due to the fact that they bought here eyes opened and follow the rules like us. It also is due to the fact that they appreciate it here like us for exactly the reasons 10:26 mentioned with their question, a question 11:58 conveniently ignores.
If you really want to talk about RV's and hostility, let's do so. We can start by discussing the hostile, rude and red-faced crowd of Blagg and her posse at the annual meeting.
Shall we?
So a plea for fairness ends up as a hate statement? Please have your health checked, you are a potential danger to the neighbors.
Rules are meant to be changed, you old ogre! We do have the high ground as long as your Board keeps acting the way they do!
As to being a troublemaker, well behaved people rarely make history.
As to our useless drivel, you seem to be a leading subscriber!
Own it!
12:30...The issues Blagg was trying to address were NOT RV issues. There has been widespread support for Patrick who is still being sued by the HOA over his shed roof. She moved to drop the lawsuit, as Patrick is no longer a S.S. resident, nor is he a Trustee any longer.
As there were several motions, there were several different issues, and a varied group of supporters. You don't know what you're talking about.
It's amazing that there is such random fear of change of any kind, and this notion that once rules are established they must never change. Totalitarian governments try to impose this kind of freeze on progress of any kind, but you won't find this in progressive modern nations. What you seem to need is only found in dictatorships.
So, guess YOU need to move, and get out of the way for governance that takes everyone into account, not just the most privileged.
Banging on Blagg again? Please acquire a clue, go buy one if you need to.
Excellent comment, as that is what we are truly dealing with, a totalitarian form of government.
Governance needs to be fair. Covenants need to be reviewed at regular intervals. Neither is happening here. The Association has been hijacked by special interests, and the rest of us are just along for the ride.
Sorry 2:36, I'm not moving, I love it here. That's why I moved here.
You and your like are the one's that should consider the move. All of you are no different than the people who move next to an airport then complain about the noise or those that move to the country and complain about the smell. Now you keep going on with the civics lesson with the totalitarian and dictator talk. Spare me. This is a HOA, not a country. People vote and put in place who they want that suit their needs. EVERYONE has that opportunely, everyone. Just like you had the opportunely to buy property elsewhere that would have suited you. Except you seem like someone that would never be pleased.
The mention of Blagg concerned the comment about hostility. If you were there and feel that she was being respectful then your bias is showing so you don't have credibility to comment on the subject. You also left out the fact of her trying to remove 3 Trustees to try and get what she wanted. It sure wasn't done in a calm way either. Using your government analogies that would be called a coup, would it not?
This all goes to the other comments as well IF they are different people. I'm sure the quick timing after yours was just a coincidence.
And please, for the love of God, don't put "Banging" and Blagg in the same sentence again.
The backbone of the hoa is the full time residents and the snowbirds with homes. The RV's move in and out and do very little to nothing to assist with making Surfside an attractive, smooth functioning, desirable place to own property.
The Covenants are not there for a fringe group of trouble makers to capriciously change. We would love to have a review of the Covenants to increase restrictions and to change enforcement to full and fair at all times.
Perhaps a coup is what is needed.
You seem to think that all the members need to play by the rules, but the Board does not.
Hypocrisy or bald self interest? Your call.
Nice attempt at the flip, as all members truly want a more restrictive HOA. Not.
I have advocated fairness, and been told I'm a hater. Kinda tells you where we're at.
When you reach a certain age, how you have lived shows on your face. The same is true of Surfside. It has reached a certain age. How people feel about SHOA shows. For Sale signs abound. It is just not an uplifting place to be long term, and it has a reputation for that, and it shows.
8:07 sadly, everything you said is so true. If you do try to sell, you won’t get what you put into your property. Locals tell prospective buyers the real story about Surfside.
I don't know what neighborhood you live in, but where we are there isn't anything for sale anymore. When there was, they sold quickly and close to asking price.
Some people have a romantic idea of life on the ocean. The reality, especially in Washington, isn't as they thought.
Perhaps that's the issue with some of this malcontent
J Place is nice, isnt it?
We live on the beach side of G Street. A nice moderately priced home next to us took 2 years to sell. Our neighbor on the other side has not sold their place this season, though they still have a month or two.
There are a few new builds, and obviously some sales, so there's a viable market. This community is somewhat remote, so a few hours drive from most urban areas. The Tree Policy assures that this will never be a very attractive community. We face the ocean so it's not a big issue to me, but much of the community shows terrible damage of those extreme restrictions.
Add to the remoteness and damaged landscape, an HOA that is off the rails unaccountable, and unresponsive to the membership, and you have enough reasons for the sale of property to be slow. What, other than price, is an incentive to move here ? Actually, the availability of RV lots ! But there is a large contingent of owners who are out-of-their-heads hostile to RV lot owners !
There are ways in which the community could change to make Surfside a happier place, but these factors have to be chipped away for that to happen, and there is strong resistance to change - actually FEAR of change -completely irrational FEAR of change. I'll just have to ignore all of this. The BOT hazes anyone who wants change.
I love where I live in surfside, shielded by wind with the trees n no sandblasted windows. I guess j place would be nice, so quiet with most houses empty most of year. I am so glad have fulltime neighbors to look after each other. All that j place hate from a part time view for most. But I guess when u buy as an investment, instead of a home, that’s what u get.
Things won't change until the majority wants it to. Live with it or move on.
Plenty of places available all over the peninsula that don't have HOA rules, never understood why people buy in one if they don't like the rules, just makes no sense.
We all live with rules in every aspect of our lives, so how you have come to this conclusion is a mystery. We all have opinions, and at times see situations that need to be addressed. Community rules are created by people, and people are fallible.
Rules are changed all the time. Legislative dockets are filled to the brim with proposed changes that have been reviewed and deemed worth presenting before the legislature. Poor use of time, and far too many issues to address, most of these proposals never reach the legislative sessions. But changes are made annually.
Thinking people think about the world around them, and see different ways of approaching issues and governance. They find ways to improve standards and see inequity in standards that need change to better serve more people more effectively. Some new ideas are effective, some are not. But without trying new approaches, there is no progress.
You are somehow oblivious to what goes on in government at every level - that being constant review of laws and standards, and frequent discussions of changes that can improve governance. No one should have ever assumed that moving to Surfside, the written rules would never change. They have, and they will.
This nonsensical rhyme that "you knew what the rules were when you bought here", pretending the world stands in place, is a pitiful misconception. The world goes round and round, bringing night and day, seasons, and constant change. We adjust or fail.
To 10:38.
Other than those who purchase on J Place, most members don't know the rules when they purchase here. They are told by the realtors that there are covenants, but hardly ever enforced. The sellers are not going to disclose the problems with living here.
The realtors and sellers on J Place will cite the covenants in protecting their views. Let the buyer beware. It is only after purchasing property here and a threatening fine letter, that buyers remorse sets in. Sure, buyers should read the fine print, but in reality most don't, especially if you are buying a lot for recreational use. Those purchasing for a full time retirement home will pay more attention, but unfortunately, most sales are for recreational use.
12:36 not following through with your due diligence is not the problem for the membership, it is for the lazy buyer.
We all have made some mistakes in our lives. Buying into an HOA in which you don't like the covenants does not get you a pass on responsible behavior. Comply with the rules or get out. You don't get to change the rules that have worked for 40 plus years to serve the interests of approximately 2500 members at a time because they don't suit you.
If all members took good care of their trees with proper and timely pruning and the thinning out of trees growing too close together, Surfside would look great. It all goes back to the covenants not being fairly and constantly enforced, a very bad policy.
If all RV members were taking timely and proper maintenance care of their RV's they would soon realize that storing, unused RV's on wind and rain swept lots is not a good plan. I don't recall ever seeing a large, expensive, well maintained RV sitting on a lot year around. It appears to me that it is the small, cheap, unmaintained RV's create the ugliness and the dangers during high wind storms.
I seriously doubt that anyone decided to write and approve of covenants that serve no sensible purpose.
Why call them lazy lacking due diligence? I am sure most are fine people as most here are. Your name calling represents a minority view that presents a poor image for our community. We are not selling used cars here, we are selling an enjoyable way of life for all members, not a few such as yourself. The few like you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Due diligence is your responsibility, don't you research your animals?, your car?, your tv??? Not researching where you are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars is absurd!
..and to add to the due diligence statements. Before you signed on the dotted line to purchase your property you were giving a packet of HOA rules, asked to read and sign. That was the time where you should have backed out if you didn't like the rules.
Thank you 3:03!!
You seem to be operating under the mistaken assumption that all rules last forever. Sorry, that's not the case.
Covenants should be reviewed on a regular basis. This does not mean they need to change, but they need to be reviewed. As the current board is happy with the status quo, there is no action no progress, no accountability.
Meanwhile, the Association regresses even further. You seem to be in favor of that. I hope you keep that viewpoint as we regress to the point where dissolution is the only answer. The way you and your buddies act, it is getting closer every day.
You seem to be operating under the mistaken assumption that all rules are made to be broken and changed. Sorry, that's not the case. No wait, I'm not sorry. I'm part of majority of member that disagrees with you.
I keep seeing comments about rule breakers and all of them leaning towards RV users. There are several covenants I know for a fact or broken by home owners regularly…
2.14 Except as permitted in designated areas, no short-term (under 30 days), transient rentals shall be permitted. Meaning, don’t rent to your buddies for the weekend.
2.17 All exterior lighting, including, but not limited to, parking lot lighting and lighted signs, must be designed, installed and/or shielded so that the bulb or other source of the lighting is not visible beyond the property line of the parcel upon which the lighting is located. I see many many outdoor lights for miles on the sides of homes and garages…
4.10a Garages and carports shall conform to the same building materials (including roofing and siding) as approved for the residence. See Section 4.4 and 4.5. You can’t make a pole barn when you live in a wood clad house… Though this has been done right in our faces off I street close to the worldmark. There are exceptions, but none speak to allowing a drastic difference as a pole barn to a house. Idea is to blend in, not be a commercial building.
5.11 Environmental pollution shall not be permitted. Environmental polluters include those who violate any environmental provisions of these covenants, as well as violators of local, regional, county, state, or federal environmental laws and regulations. Burying asbestos pipe falls into this category… oops.
The rule breakers include undeveloped lots, RV lots and lots with houses. The trouble makers are mainly the RV users who want to nail down more privileges for themselves in regard to storing their mostly or always empty RV's on lots year around, not being bothered with the upkeep of complying with tree, other covenants and sheds with unlimited additions and overhangs to create living spaces and uses other than plain storage and a general take over of the management and governance of the HOA.
The full enforcement of the covenants on a timely and fair basis is wanted by all members with the exception of the rule breakers and the trouble makers. Have you noticed this? Most of us want a more attractive, well maintained and valuable HOA that is respected by the larger peninsula community and a desired place to live or vacation. Imagine that!
Yes, imagine not getting bulldozed by the present clique.
So now you choose to speak for all members?
Speaking as a member, I do not want the board of trustees involved in my life any more than they already are.
You are correct in the fact that most of us want a more attractive, well maintained, and valuable HOA, that is respected. Why do you think we do not have that?
Perhaps it is the relentless pressure of people like yourself to maintain status quo, have no accountability, and make no advancement. Change is the only constant in life. Prepare to go the way of the dinosaur.
2.14 says no rentals, But you can allow friends to stay if no money is transferred...in other words, not rent, just stay for the weekend. The association can't say you can't have company.
Plus there are LLC's that have multiple people staying at varying times.
These are Not violations!
10:35 the intent is to have generally members using and being a community, not many random people that ultimately will not hold the same values. This is a rule to reach for a community environment, not BRBO or vacation rental zone. Yes you can lend your property.
These are the rules buster... Better not find yourself violating them. If they think they are overreaching tough luck... right?
So, tell me why RV owners must have a guest pass in their guests rv window but stickbuilt do not. Seems discriminating to say the least. I have known of a number of squatters on peninsula and majority is houses. You people are so pathetic and worried about RVs. You will never see harmony in Surfside with your snotty attitudes. Furthermore, I find RV folks far more friendly and good natured. Stickbuilt owners drive around with a scowl on their faces looking for a violation by their lowlife neighbors in Rvs. PS: I am not a Blagg or Patrick posse member.
I agree that there are too many RV lot restrictions, but requiring a pass for your guest's RV seems perfectly reasonable. RV lots should not be allowed to be overcrowded, and the HOA is responsible for keeping everyone in the neighborhood cooperative with one another.
As many RV lots are vacant much of the time, how could a squatter be identified ? It seems fine to require RVs to be registered for everyone's sake. We wouldn't want long term encampments of multiple RVs, as this is a residential community, not a trailer park.
I don't question your integrity for owning an RV for Pete's sake - it's just another way to enjoy the Coast. But RVs parked on stick-built lots need a pass too. I think this is a good standard that serves everyone. There are some restrictions I think are unfair and unnecessary.
So 10:53, since you have shared your generalized statement about RV folks being so nice and stickbuilt being so mean I guess we must assume you're a house owner by your attitude then, right? On the pass thing, go ask Travis at the next meeting on what he has seen over the years concerning squatters here in SHOA. You will find out the facts are the opposite of what you described.
To 12:36:
Don't understand how you can make the jump that it is primarily the J folks who read and know of the rules when buying. You then proceed to contradict yourself when saying members are told about covenants by realtors but they aren't enforced. That is the key point to most of the issues here. Certain people come in here feeling that they can do what they want and ignore the rules then get all bent out of shape when they get a complaint. Then you get people like 10:53 making foolish statements like that people are driving around looking for violations.
You have your head in the sand 11:54. Ask around and folks will tell you we have “RV police”. Their main purpose in life is worrying about RV properties. Talk about foolish! I’m quite sure George would agree with my FOOLISH statement about these bored to tears members lurking around.
Members are not lurking around or driving around looking for covenant violations to my observations. If that were true, we'd have a lot more complaints and a much better looking community. Of course RV folks will tell you that we have "RV Police" because they have formed a coalition to overcome and prevail with making changes in Surfside to the advantage of RV's. Their spokes people thrive on the paranoia generated by their group. Does it occur to you nitwits that those people you see driving around are the people who live here? They are going to the grocery store or on their way to visit a friend.
Going to store with notepad in hand, parked and writing? They are out there.
You can rent your home if it's long term. Read the rules.
those parked cars with notepads are usually looking for real estate. the other ones are probably updating their grocery list. as noted previously, there would a lot more complaints if anyone was driving around looking for violations to write a complaint. so true, the comment that Surfside would look much better than it does if members were actually driving around and looking for something to complaint about.
4:05 should straighten up his aluminum foil hat and pull his head out of the sand. maybe, he needs some serious therapy or a kick in the bum for lying.
Having been on the receiving end of a complaint, I can tell you there are in fact people who drive around and file complaints. The person who wrote me up happened to live down the street and had to drive by my property to exit the area. My neighbors had warned me about her so it wasn't a surprise, but her reputation was well founded.
Grocery list. Good one. Lol. To bad you can’t comment without negativity n lame attempt at humor. Discounts all your many copy n paste statements.
How would anyone who is presented with a complaint to know who filed the complaint 4:57. Aren't complainers names kept secret? Also, I would say that someone who lives down the street and had to exit the area using that street is more of a neighbor than someone purposefully driving by to find things to complain about.
The false accusations and hate that is generated by the current policy for covenant enforcement is unnecessary. This policy destroys any hope that Surfside could ever be a friendly, trusted community. We would like to see a full time employee dealing with covenant enforcement in a consistent and fair way.
In our neighborhood, there has been some chatter and gossip about a member filing complaints. We know that the complaints were actually filed by another member who lives down the street. Be careful about who you choose to blame for a complaint. I know several people who thought that a County Assessor employee was writing complaints because there was a car with a person writing things parked along their street.
Many properties are obviously out of compliance with the covenants. We would agree that there would be many more complaints and a better looking Surfside if members were actually driving around looking for violations to file a complaint. The paranoia that exists with the complaint method for covenant enforcement is not a good thing for a homeowner's association.
I know a guy who works for a roofing company doing estimates. He told me that he has been accused more than a few times in Surfside of trespassing and of writing complaints. A computer repair guy that I know also has mentioned being approached while writing things up in his car with accusations that he was making a complaint.
I wish that I knew how to copy and paste something on this blog. My computer talents are not so good.
Fact is: from the beginning of our ownership in SHOA, there are members who drive around and monitor RV properties for violations. They are not nice people and don’t like RV properties and never will. Same goes for Tree posse. They are only protecting a few homeowners’ views with their ridiculous measuring and investigations. I’ve watches them. They are not nice folks either. Sweet as candy to your face and boom, tree violation before you know it. The whole thing drives suspicion, distrust, hostility, and a hostile environment in Surfside. PS: the elitists do drive around with scowls on their faces towards RV folks. We are accustomed to this and now purposely wave to see if they will reciprocate. Not so much. Makes for a good chuckle though!
So how do we all feel about getting a compliance officer? That opens up a whole new can of complaints
Isn't the point that covenants should be followed by all members? If someone is filing a complaint, there is very likely a reason for doing that. You folks who think that there are people driving around with notepads to find covenant violations might want to think about actually managing your property so that it is in compliance with the covenants. Then------you don't have to worry about complaints. That is not so hard is it?
A full time compliance employee could make all the difference in creating a community in which neighbors trust each other. The long term effect of fair and full covenants compliance would be an improved and more respected and respectful community. YAY!!
Those who would complain against the findings of a covenant enforcement employee who is working to fairly enforce would be revealed as the trouble makers that they are. Imagine having a community that is improved with a few trouble makers who are known to all for their hateful actions.
11:36...
I removed your comment because it contained a reference to racial slurs. It would probably be ok to see a reference to the N or S word, but is offensive when fully used. I suggest you re-post with that portion deleted.
How bout that I street boat display on the chip covered lot?! Still a "silent protest"?
Imagine a community that treated its members fairly, with covenants that were current, and agreed upon by the majority.
Yes, imagine, beacause that's as close as you will get around here.
Back when this association had a General Manager and compliance officer, it was much less divisive. This format would also allow the Board to get out of day to day operations. An idea whose time has come?
As to the troublemakers, I'll be the one pointing at you.
No time to worry about that! Gotta put all their energy into trees and Patrick’s shed! Priorities are quite interesting, huh?
It is an embarrassment to the whole community when a member chooses to display something ugly on their lot like the hideous boat on I. It is also ugly when members fails to properly tend to their trees. It is also ugly when a member decides to bypass or ignore an approval for a structure from the architectural committee. The priority to deal with covenant violations is currently set capriciously with a complaint required for any action to be taken. 1:36's comment is crap again. Some members invite their own troubles by offending their surrounding neighbors sufficiently to invite a complaint. Most members do not want to file complaints and avoid it.
The covenants are what they are. There was reasoning behind the writing of those covenants. They become outdated only when a majority of the members agree that they are. A fringe group of malcontents should never be allowed to rewrite the covenants.
There you go again 8:20 with your tree committee B.S.
Fact 1:
The tree committee responds to complaints given to them from the office. If there are no complaints there would be no reason for them to do what is asked of the committee with the measuring.
Fact 2:
People make complaints, in this case with tree heights, on properties that don't follow the covenants. Follow the covenants like you should and you won't get a complaint. Do that and again, the tree committee would not have to do what is asked of them.
To your derogatory accusation aimed at the members about not being nice. That has no base in fact, just your opinion. Even if true, judging by the tone of your comments I'd say you have no room to talk.
Some on the tree committee encourage members to write complaints. They even go so far as to provide them with the lot numbers. Their friends write complaints, many times more than one, even if it does not block their view. They had maps made, not to help the members know the tree height on their lots, but to make it easy to write a complaint. These are not nice people. They have in common living on J Place and a dislike of RV members. They display an attitude of thinking they are better and smarter than the other members. They even think they have to tell us what to plant.
8:00 PM You truly need to adjust your aluminum foil hat because the vibrations from la la land are penetrating your brain. I'm not serving on the tree committee. I live in the shortest tree restriction area. I trust that the tree committee members are doing their volunteer work as best they can. There is no Godzilla with green teeth, bad breath and a hateful attitude serving on the tree committee. The information that I have seen regarding invasive plants and trees unsuitable for this area has been helpful.
Do you not understand that a tree complaint would not cause anyone a problem unless their trees are not in compliance with the covenants? A decent, upstanding member would be diligent about keeping their trees in compliance. A trouble making jerk would try anything to avoid complying with the tree covenant including goofy attempts to cast aspersions on the members of the tree committee. Your comments 8:00 PM simply reveal what a nasty person you are.
Some RV members are unlikable. Some RV members are likable. Some home owners are unlikable. Some home owners are likable. That is the way it is. It is not hard to imagine that 8:00 PM fits in the unlikable category.
I get that the trees are in the covenants, but it's really great people watching with the deep passion an allegiance to this rule some of these members have. It's making me think about the personalities involved that they are more guidance / boundary driven than the true reasoning for the covenant in the first place. "They say to cut the trees... we must cut the trees! You know the rules!" Kim Jong Un isn't waiting around the corner to be impressed. I haven't heard the general opinion that they must be cut to keep a beautiful appearance for the community. Just that it's a rule and we must follow it. I could see if there was a grass committee giving people hell for not mowing the lawn cause it looks better if we all mow every week.
It is the "view" of a selfish minority. They don't give a damn about your safety or beauty. Nothing but BS. These are not nice people or our friends. The propaganda spread out by the tree police serves their interests only. They should be wearing arm bands. Just a bunch of old bags with their yes honey husbands.
Fully agree with fed up. They are not nice people and think they are holier than thou cause they live on J. It is BS regarding safety and beauty. Abolish the Tree Committee like they did Tech Committee!!!
If they make me kill my trees, I will see them in small claims court. I urge others to do the same. It's time to fight back. We out number them and their bullying will not persist. They have done more to lower property values here than any other issue. Take them to court and the complaint will no longer be anonymous. Expose these cowards for what they are. I agree, these are not nice people. Will the blog host remove this truthful comment?
So what if the view is part of the tree covenant. Safety in our high wind storms is also a real concern. Trees were falling over in our mild winter last year between 295th and 300th. This was pointed out to Blagg who lives within a 1 minute walk from where the fallen trees were visible. Did she or anyone else consider the hard evidence that taller shore pines break apart and fall over in our storms. Were these crazies here in 2007 to see hundreds of broken and downed trees in Surfside? Were they out there with their chain saws helping to clear the streets and clean up downed trees. I doubt it.
Raymer and others on the tree committee in previous years was doing the same stuff that the current committee does even though the committee did not have such expensive equipment to determine tree heights at that time. Perhaps, the crazies are interpreting a surer determination that trees are too tall into a holier than thou attitude. More likely, the crazies are trying anything to win an argument because they are irresponsible, hate filled, trouble makers. I wish they would use their energy to take good care of their trees instead of spitting out poison that has nothing to do with making Surfside a respected and friendly community.
To put the safety angle to rest, In the neighborhood just south of SHOA just past the SHOA sign, they do not trim the trees and it is not a devastated windblown wasteland. The covenants for both trees and house height are there to simply level down all things in the way of the bump in the peninsula view.
That said, yes, many trees on the east side fell this year. Sucks and is dangerous for sure. These are 50'+ healthy firs and it happens sometimes. I am thankful I had none fall on my property. I have seen no signs of shore pines falling in this manner in the south neighborhood.
Part of the reason that there may be a divisive attitude between RVers and home owners goes to Deb Blagg's effort to create a divide and conquer RV coalition. Here's a question, do any RV lot owners volunteer on the tree committee? Generally, are there any or many helpful volunteers from the RV contingency? Our less than admirable president is, guess what, an RV guy. There is not much going on with the RV members that would cause a sense of endearment or friendship to exude from the home owners towards the RV members.
Dear Stickbuiltless,
You obviously only drive on I street. Try G and H for a clearer view of what the wind does to the trees in the more exposed area just south of Surfside. Also, many of the lots there use Surfside water which means that they should be in compliance with Surfside covenants which should result in trimmed trees. Few people know this. Clearly, you don't know it.
"many of the lots there use Surfside water which means that they should be in compliance with Surfside covenants"
What? Assuming this is true, using a water system does not force you into compliance with an association. They would then be in SHOA. You either are or you aren't regardless of use of some features. We happen to have a water dept. so it wouldn't be a surprise that we hook up to other outsiders to cover cost.
Call the office if you have doubts 10:17. Refer to the Operations Manual, 1.15 on page 136 under Governance on the Surfside website.
Anyone outside Surfside that takes our water becomes apart of the HOA and has to sign off agreeing they will abide by the CC&R's, that has to be recorded with the county. They then become members who pay the same dues as everyone else.
10:17 you are wrong, 11:00 is correct, George can verify
so if they dig a well, they can grow trees 50' and put 19" overhangs on their sheds eh?
Yup. Most of them have opted to go with the Surfside water and required membership responsibilities.
Go watch some TV today Stickbuiltless. The winds in 2007 were measured at 160+ on the headlands. Gusts of 80 to 100 were common in Surfside and similar areas. Then think again about the trees and having RV's on lots in high wind areas throughout the year. Try to get educated instead of spouting off about what you do not know.
This ongoing reference to anyone who has a gripe about the HOA being a "Troublemaker" is akin to using racial slurs to describe people's origins.
Expressing one's views on community issues is as American as Football and Apple Pie, and central to the workings of democratically based organizations, of which Surfside HOA is one. How about removing all references to "Troublemakers" with the same zeal as banning racial slurs ? One in the same !
Ouch. Troublemaker tag must be feeling too close to the truth.
The troublemakers feel free to say dreadful things about the so called status quo, those who own on higher ground and those on certain committees. If you can dish it out, you must learn to take it.
Spouting off.. nice.
12:17, regardless of your fear of wind, the tree policy has no correlation. It may be a side effect that eases your wind anxiety and PTSD from 2007, but nonetheless, has nothing to do with it. It's to control visibility from J street, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm fine with those on J having a horizon view of the ocean. The added safety of shorter trees in high wind areas is a welcomed bonus at my house. I also have a real concern about the wood in wood piles that goes flying in the windstorms. We have been bombarded with fallen tree limbs and fire wood bashing into our house and landing in our yard during the storms. We are always grateful that none of it has hit our windows.
Those who hold unbreakable, can't be educated opinions are known as difficult people or trouble makers. The rest of us try to keep open minds and to cooperate in our communities.
1:02, I'm far from a troublemaker... There's nothing wrong with questioning the rules. An open mind also allows the idea the rule isn't correct in the first place. I do cooperate and I believe my property is a fine example of such cooperation. Doesn't mean I believe the rules are all for the best of the community. I'm on the east, so the tree policy doesn't even apply to me, but I still feel it affects me as the west is really attractive in my mind.
Poor 12:19, Got his comment deleted by the blog host. If his deleted comment was anything like his objection, easy to see why it was deleted. Poor fool, he is the trouble maker, and doesn't even know it.
Well fed up, you're a fine piece of work. You talk about other people not being nice by using insulting terms. Then you also see fit to go after their husbands. Quite the little keyboard warrior, aren't you?
Your mommy must be so proud.
After this long, we all know where you fit as well.
You should have more confidence in your blog admin. The truth will stay out here.
So now if you have a dissenting opinion, you're a 'crazy'?
If you truly wish to make Surfside a respected and friendly community, the 1st thing you should consider is to stop posting.
Dissenting does not make you right or a member of the majority thinking in Surfside. There is a point where the rants about what the minority wants becomes nothing more than a pain in the rump that creates ill will. Only crazy people keep doing the same thing and then expect a different result.
Only crazy people keep voting in the same people to BOD and expect different results! Great statement!!!!
Well 12:33, you're an idiot. Discussions have points of view and do not constitute whining, nor are opinions "rants". If you can't handle diverse points of view and see expressing one's views as "dreadful" and upsetting - don't read the blog !!
Hey minority, you are not going to shut up or shut down the majority. It isn't simply a matter of diverse opinions that is the problem. It is a matter that a few, self serving, covenant breakers want to change the association to suit themselves with no regard for how this affects others in the association. You gave the takeover of your dreams a shot at the annual meeting. Try not to be sore losers. Try to put your energy into cooperating in the association, being good neighbors or moving away.
I've never received a non-compliance notice, enjoy our home, and enjoy my neighbors. I did not attend the Annual Meeting, and your notion that there was anything improper about the motions made at the meeting is rubbish. The meeting was not conducted properly, and all of the motions should have been voted on.
If Deb and others who supported these motions could have sent notice of their intent without interruption by Williams, they would have. He obviously expected it, and would not have allowed HOA publication of the proposed motions. Instead they blocked them, which is not proper in a member meeting. Members are entitled to bring issues to the floor and make motions in a member meeting - unlike a Board Meeting.
You are mired in your embrace of b.s., and the accompanying excuses. Your conception of me is way off, obviously.
So now you speak for the majority?
You are only in this alledged majority by right of a highly questionable election.
Try to get it through your head; my way or the highway will not work here. It will simply give people more morivation. Status quo isn't cutting it....not without honesty and transparency.
12:19 sez ...Hey 1:37, you must LIVE on this blog to know my post was removed. It was essentially the same statement as at 12:19 - but mentioned 2 racial slurs by name. They never cross my lips, that is for certain. I was merely making a point, that putting a negative label on a group of people is a way to instantly associate hate with the term.
George is the guy in charge, and I'm fine with his judgement. I knew that it might be seen as too provocative.
Hey, here’s an idea, if your going to say the same thing over n over how bout just saying “ditto”. Specially the name calling, you need to move, everyone that believes in a democracy should shut up people. I think most of those comments come from one or two people. You know, the ones that hate everyone else on this blog!
12:58 states they were NOT at the annual meeting but proceeds to make statements like they were anyways. Typical. So for you comment like you were is way off. obviously.
They way that Blagg handled this was improper. She resigned the night before then showed up with her posse that was obviously prearranged to attempt their coup. The truly proper way it should have been done would have been for her to resign at the previous board meeting and let the ENTIRE membership know of the motions and her attempt to remove trustees, not just her chosen ones. That way the ENTIRE membership would have the opportunity to voice their desires. But instead they tried a fast one and it failed, even with their underhanded tactics. As others have pointed out on here, some still can't deal with that fact.
As far as interruptions go, again you are mistaken. Both Blagg's and some of their buddies constantly made interruptions. Quite frankly, Williams put up with more than he should have.
5:57 prime example of 3:48 comments.
Paranoia and fantasy run rampant in the minority faction. Yes (tongue in cheek) there is only one person making any comments opposing the crazy minority. The rest of the majority is far too busy trimming their trees and removing too large overhangs from their sheds.
Out of more than 2000+ members, the small minority thinks that 1 member is making all the comments opposing their ideas for changes in Surfside. The comments saying all opposing comments are a repeat of the same stuff is also interesting. I'd say that there might be two or three members making all the comments for the minority. Have you noticed that the minority opposition's darling Blagg has gone silent? I hope she's out looking for a new place to park her RV and stir up trouble.
The Blaggs travel a lot in Fall and Winter, and own property elsewhere. Missing your target for abuse huh ? She probably reads the blog now and then. Standing for any sound improvements in this community's governance makes one a target for abuse, and she's had a heapin' helpin'.
People who are willing to deal with this kind of abuse long term are very few. She had nothing but good intentions, is smart and energetic. A perfect Trustee really. Maybe the morass of legal problems the HOA has invited to our doors will wake up the membership.
The troublemaker is you, clown boy, with your insistent 'is what it is' crap, this place will never advance. It will stay mired in anger and controversy.
Congratulations! Be proud of yourself.
Move on 12:15. You lost and you do not represent the majority thinking in Surfside. You are mired in delusions.
Yes, The sky is falling, The sky is falling, said chicken little....
I think we all have seen more than enough comments here. Certainly, no minds have been changed. Not chicken little, gets the last word. End of comments on this sorta subject.
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