June 2021 Meeting and CARL cover up..
SURFSIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION TREE, BRUSH, VEGETATION AND NOXIOUS WEEDS COMMITTEE June 4, 2021
Call to Order: Meeting called to order at 1:00 pm.
Present: Peggy Olds (Chair), Valerie Harrison, Ron Brumbaugh, Diane Mangels, Tracy Lofstrom (Surfside Manager), Darryl Groner (Compliance Officer) Guests: Gwen Wagner, Louise Purdin, John Purdin
Introduction and Welcome:
Peggy welcomed all members, guests and staff. Darryl was introduced as Surfside’s new Compliance Officer, and shared his extensive background.
Old Business:
--May, 2021 Minutes: The final May and June 2021 minutes will be submitted for Board approval at the June Board meeting.
--Compliance Staffing/Automation: Tracy and Darryl discussed the new compliance software. Darryl is actively loading the database and will begin using the tablet and software in the field by next week. Tree committee volunteers will continue to provide training and field support as requested. Tracy has divided Surfside into ten (10) sections with approximately 200-250 lots per section. She and Darryl will begin reviewing each section for compliance with all covenants, not just tree, brush or noxious weeds. Tracy indicated this is a test run and the approach can change as they get more experience with the automation tools and learn workload impacts. John requested that Surfside-owned properties be included in the compliance reviews. Peggy requested committee members also have a chance to go out with Darryl to understand the new tools to help answer member questions. Tracy agreed to both requests.
--Surfside Demonstration Plantings: Tracy discussed with the Board several committees’ ideas for installing demonstration plantings of trees, bushes or other vegetation on Surfside property, suitable for riparian area plantings or were easy maintenance, low water uses and/or slow growing. She secured Board approval for a demonstration planting on Surfside property and will develop a draft planting plan by August for committee reviews. The Tree Committee and CRC will work with Tracy on developing a fall planting or plant exchange event per previous agreement.
--Critical Areas Resource Lands Ordinance (CARL) workshop update: John discussed his experience with historic concerns about vegetation in the canals and potential erosion that results from overheight willows and other trees. He indicated Surfside was originally all sand and the canals and lakes were created in Surfside for drainage and flood control. The Water Company did a survey of Seabreeze lake and found no vegetative infill but did not survey the canals, which can readily infill with leaf fall. This can reduce flow and cause slow drainage resulting in flooding and septic impacts. Pacific County, with assistance from Surfside staff, control the opening and closing of the flood gates to control flooding. He described recent events from heavy rainfall, where local flooding was noted. He indicated the importance of tree and vegetation management along these flood control structures to maintain water table and flood control for Surfside.
Peggy provided excerpts from Pacific County CARL ordinance 180 which specifically exempt maintenance, repair, and operation of existing structures, ponds and flood control activities for vegetation maintenance and allows tree height control consistent with Surfside covenants. See attached CARL language. Tracy iterated concerns that there were competing interpretations of CARL at the county staff level on vegetation management around lakes and canals, as well as the accreted lands along G Street. She wants to use internal Surfside CARL workshops to work with the county, members and the Board to document the understandings once the new Board is seated. Until then, Tracy agreed compliance cases where overheight trees or other vegetation that border the canals, lakes or oceanside will remain open, not closed, as had been noted in a few cases. Valerie also requested that any escrow checks include disclaimer language that additional compliance work may be needed pending clarification of CARL and covenant requirements. Tracy agreed to the request.
New Business: --Tree Report/Discussion: See attached summary report. Darryl’s goal is to supply a detailed report from the new software at next month’s meeting.
--Committee membership: Peggy requested consideration of co-chairs for the Tree Committee. Valerie motioned and Diane seconded that Pam Harris and Ron Brumbaugh be added as co-chairs. The motion was unanimously passed. Peggy also invited Gwen to become a permanent member of the committee, which she accepted. Tracy asked Peggy to work with Kimber and Marianne Schweitzer (Committee trustee) to prepare a formal motion to add co-chairs and Gwen to the committee for the Board packet for its June meeting.
--Member Contacts: Peggy assisted 2 members requesting case completion work.
Meeting adjourned at 2:02PM Next Meeting: Friday, July 2, 2021 at 1:00PM
48 comments:
AGAIN- I do NOT want to pay for a person to drive around looking for offenses. This is not a city neighborhood where all the mailboxes need to be the same height, color, size. I bought the house like this and NOW you want to tell me its out of compliance?
NO, NO, and NO
Wouldn't it be wonderful if as much work done by the Tree Committee be done by the HOA to improve the ability of members to have a club house large enough for member activities and full attendance of Board meetings......
We’ve lived in two separate HOAs and nothing at either had anything at escrow held up or processed for anything but the dues and assessments! This is just a sneaky way to bring properties into “compliance “. Don’t agree with this $200 fee and the compliance issue at all!
I say we do away with tree committee. Every tree is either gone or butchered. This is no longer needed, and these folks can go find another project
I say let the covenants be enforced. I say let the members learn to respect the rules and take care of their trees as well as other aspects of their property in Surfside. We will be a better and more attractive community when the members get serious about their responsibilities while enjoying their rights.
@11:06 We don't have any rights. Living in this HOA is non ownership. Everyone else owns my property except me, I just get to pay for it. Wait until you get a letter. I'm sure there's some nuance you have missed and will have to change on your property, oops, I meant to say their property that you get to pay for.
Besides killing all the trees could June 30, 2021 at 11:06 please tell us what other "aspects" of our property we need to learn to take care of. Don't know how dead trees make the community more attractive. If you think north of Oysterville road looks bad, they haven't even started with the other "routine compliance routes". Soon all of Surfside will look like the destruction in the north end.
The first four comments are right on the mark. The 5th one is the head scratcher, because it ignores all facts and evidence to the contrary.
Where does this crazy fear of widespread chaos come from ? This notion that more law and order is desperately needed ?
It is simply NOT verifiable. To the community's credit, every house is different, colors are the owner's choice and vary greatly, and choices of landscaping grealy diverse, as it should be.
Difficult weather and conditions for paintng homes, and growing lawns, very challenging. Hiring contractors is challenging, and best conditions for exterior maintenance, less than 6 months.
Most homes are used sporadically, with only a few hundred permanent residents. So most of the year, there are only about 1/4 of the households. in use (5 or 600 maybe, it isn't known) many of the residents are elderly and retired.
Resources to pay for tree maintenance and home improvement may be very limited, so projects need to wait at times for money to be available.
Fears of crime in Surfside drove the ridiculous deputy contract, and we see that there is no legitimate need for a deputy. This Gestapo Compliance force is another weird manifestation of baseless fears gone wild.
This is a very adversarial attitude that the Board of Trustees has chosen to further establish, certain to create a lot of conflict and legal spwnding, all in an effort to demand full allegiance of the members, imposing various useless restrictions on residents who just want to be left to enjoy Surfside without the constant monitoring and nasty attitude.
This is not driven by member choice, evidence of crime, or widespread neglect. It is just mean spirited and ill- conceived.
I think all the compliance , law and order, supporters are members of the BOT or tied to them, unable to afford the country club lifestyle they do feel deserving of, but are in no way near the socio-economic class they so desire. This is the most they can hope for in their legacy, and I feel sorry for them and their Walter Mitty belief of grandeur. They are in their own world and don't even have the understanding how petty and unfulfilled their lives truly are, while slowly causing resentment within the community.
Cox is so far off the mark as usual. We want an orderly, fair and respectable community. We truly do not need or want members who are constantly stirring up trouble trying to change the rules that they agreed to when purchasing property in Surfside.
12:59 clearly has a grudge against who knows what. Laws, regulations, rules, covenants, guidelines lead to civilization and cooperation. These two concepts may be beyond the brain power of 12:59.
As I drive around Surfside in all areas, I think most homes, cabins and RV lots look fine. The real blight I see are the dead standing trees and others that soon will be. Now that members have been forced to kill their trees, the next thing will be to cite them and fine them for dead trees on their property. This is a no win for the members. I like green grass and flowers, but would never impose my standards on anyone else. As long as a member maintains their property in a fire safe manner and it is reasonably neat, that is all that should be required. I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
100 - you live in the past, and want all of us to stay there with you. You support greed, self-interest, and then nepotistic attitude this board has had for the last decade. Be proud of it. Your ignorance is about to end abruptly.
1:00, 1:07.... It's obvious to anyone new to Surfside, and obvious to residents of Surfside. There are dead and destroyed trees everywhere, and many households are choosing to cut down every tree on their lots. It has created a sterile ugly landscape that is clearly the result of a manaiacal policy and obsessive administrators.
No one who claims this widespread non- compliance exists, can state WHAT it is that is being violated. We found out that the Lighting covenant was being amended, was based on the lie that lighting complaints numbered over 50. When put on the spot, the bus.manager admitted that they had received FIVE complaints.
Gary Williams said the same thing this year -the rewrite is because of SO MANY complaints. It'a lie!! When the Trustees of a community need to lie to justify their intrusive actions, the members need to stop these unnecessary power grabs. They are trying to take away member's rights to make decisions about their own property, and basing it on a LIE.
1:00 & 1:07 Tell us what these violations are. State exactly what written rules are being abused. I'll bet you can't name any but the. stupid tree policy. Prove that we need heavy compliance action in our community.No one asked the members about it.
There has to be an in-depth conversation with the board and the members to explain just why we have this very strict height covenant? If it hasn’t anything to do with view, then what is the reasoning? Safety? Fire danger? Appearance? Just what? As history has it, the east side does not fall under this covenant and everyone know there are trees that could possibly present a safety hazard over there!
Let’s just get honest about this tree height business and relook at those covenants!
Can someone explain to me why on the Westside of I street home heights are 16 feet , but across the canal and out to G street home heights are 24 feet? Are we supposed to give J placers a view of the Canal and the Ocean both? This whole home heights stuff just confuses me!
So when we start this Pro-Active enforcement in different sections, are the Enforcer and all of his co-hearts gonna caravan around or are they gonna rent a party bus? Seems like a lot of people want to be involved in giving him input, if I am at my property will they have a discussion with me about possible violations or will they hide behind car windows and slink away like a snake in the grass? Only to mail me a violation letter in a couple months for immediate action to conform to their assnine rules.
Right on the money, Steve!
Please members vote in a new group of hopefully reasonable Trustees and stop this Police State madness!
Ronda, Cori, John, Larry
Can someone explain to me why members do not take care of their property and what grows on it to comply with the covenants that apply to their lot (s)? The trees are a mess because of the irresponsibility of some members. That is a fact that cannot be ignored or denied. Decent and caring people would not manage their property to leave a mess of ruined and distressed vegetation and trees. The problem is not the Tree Committee. The problem is the irresponsible and hateful members who refuse to properly maintain their property. Any change in the covenants will not change these members. They will continue to be terrible neighbors who are all too willing to break rules and stir up trouble. Get real folks. The facts are the facts.
Oh boy @6:39 - prepare yourself for a wraith of comments calling you evil, board member, tree committee member, j-place elitist, selfish, the covenants are old - basically you are a horrible person that should move. There is no place for facts here.
Cox - 100 here. I have been watching the degradation of this association for over a decade.
Transgressions?
Pursuit of a platform built solely on self interest, ignoring all other members, and the use of aggressive bullying to pursue their goals.
Lack of communication - poorest I've ever seen by a not-for-profit, having over 40 years experience in that area.
Stacking the Board with only like type J placers. Appointing board members in contravention of the covenants.
Questionable election practice's.
Failure to deliver services contracted for: security, water and compactor. All have had issues that could be attributed to management to n
Way too many decisions made ad hoc, under-the-table, with no opportunity for opposition or recourse.
The garbage and petty games need to stop, by whatever means necessary.
802 - Really doubtful you would know a fact of it struck you in the forehead. The tree policy is ridiculous, inconsistent, and self serving. Deal with it.
639 - The trees are a mess because of inconsistent application of non existent covenants. Mix in a significant J place self interest group, and you have the mess that we face today.
There is no member this board that deserves re election.
8:02....The covenants say next to nothing about how properties are to be maintained. Mowing is not specifically required, as most properties do not have actual lawns.
The Arborist Society, the authority on trees, state that trees should not be routinely trimmed, and never topped. The Surfside policy completely ignores this standard of care, instead demanding all tree owners west of the ridge trim and top biannually at the least.
It can't be construed that hate drives members to resist tree-cutting demands. Common sense really. If you support this policy you ARE an elitist. This is not a sound, respectful, and necessary policy, so is "elitist".
How good a person you are is, in the eyes of others, judged according to one's generosity of spirit and respect of other's rights.
Elitism is agreeing to abide by certain standards and then when you don't feel like it because you are of poor character, blame anyone but yourself.
I would love to get rid of the tree committee, they have done nothing but divide this community and cause more anger.
What we are in need of is a helping hand committee that can start taking names of members in need of help.
Maybe a window screen is broke, or a door needs fixing or a lawn mowed. Maybe they need stuff taken to the landfill and cannot get out. Start bringing our community together!
It's always about trees and the covenants say this...
It's time to rewrite these 56 year old outdated bullshit covenants.
You people are afraid of change. You live in a hole and dwell on making others miserable.
Kurt said it best last summer to his neighbor Ed..."Go live you life"
As I asked previously, can anyone justify the tree covenants? Safety, no! Appearance, no! Posible danger to others, no! Concerns for erosion, no! And only pertains to west side so pretty transparent it’s about view!
It’s way past time to honestly review this destructive covenant!
We are in our 6th year as Surfside owners, and have never received a non-compliance letter. I oppose policies that put restrictions on ownership in Surfside that do not serve a clear purpose or need, but put a significant burden on member's lives and happiness.
My opposition to the Tree restrictions, pro-active enforcement, title transfer inspections and fees, and Board refusing to abide by our documents and State/County/Fed. Regulations IS that none of them can be justified as necessary.
The first person that challenges the tree issues in court will make a lot of money...from us.
The rabid tree huggers have repeatedly denied the fire and wind dangers that are present when the trees are allowed to grow freely and profusely. Again, facts are facts.
So all trees, even in forests must be cut? This is exactly what you refer to....
Trees that are allowed to grow, pose fire and wind damage. Unless of couse you are east side of J, those don't pose fire or wind damage, Smfh!
Yes 2:12 the rest of the peninsula must be so jealous because we are free of wind and fire dangers because we kill our trees. Why are they not following our examples of good stewardship? What is the matter with those who want trees to grow freely and profusely? They must want shade and birds and animals.
We must outlaw smoking in Surfside. It poses fire danger, oh and chimneys too, they could get a chimney fire. Lawn mowing might throw a spark off if you hit a rock.
So much stupidity with the tree hugger post
@2:27, we have had more dune grass fires than damage by trees or wind. Should we get rid of dunes,? The elite J placers might have a better view if we did
212 - because no one has ever been able to verify any information regarding fire or wind. It's hysterical chatter from the J placers. Not a single incident in over 20 years that I have lived here.
There's your facts,
240 - not nearly as much stupidity as a self-interested board violating their own Covenants! Keep shucking.
Shorepines are native to the Coastal areas, and grow well in the worst "soil". They are extremely tenacious, and grow very strong root systems, able to withstand harsh conditions, heavy winds, and contort to survive.
They aren't real pretty, though grow into interesting forms under such stressful conditions. A lot of trees are beautiful, Shorepines not so much - but they are one of the only species that can grow well in sand and heavy winds. No one wants to hug 'em, but we should appreciate the benefits of trees which are overlooked.
They create vast amounts of Oxygen and destroy or sequester vast amounts of pollutants, each and every tree. Only a fool would dismiss the significance to human existence.
Not one fire of consequence in Surfside in 50 years. Surfside was barren ground after it was carved out of a wetland, and these trees were planted to crate some landscape interest and hold the sand in place.
Now most have been killed and removed. Nice job people !! Go hug a gnarly stump 2:12. It's your choice that has prevailed.
So says the guy who has a place with no trees around it.
OK 2:27, 5:52 and others, here's some facts for you to ignore.
I will talk only of the last fire that we had on the coast. While some may consider it of no consequence I'm pretty sure the owners of the house that caught fire inside felt differently. I was there before the fire crew arrived and witnessed all that happened, something I'm sure most of you didn't.
Conditions were extremely dry with high winds. Nobody should have had a fire going that day and certainly shouldn't have left it unattended, which the owners did. While it did start as a dune fire, the major cause of the spread was when the small pines ignited. It was quite dramatic to see. They practically blew up with fire and with the winds burning flaming material was blown further downwind igniting more dunes. There are pictures out there that show this happening. That is why there were areas that weren't burned between others that were. That is also how sparks got up into the eaves of a 2 story house catching the inside on fire.
The community dodged a bullet that day because it could have been worse. Thankfully the winds that day were going North to South and not coming from the West. If it had, the dune fire would have ignited the large group of taller trees that were on the property line and not the small pines that were spread out. If that would have happened no telling how much or how far the fire would have spread. Another big help was all the owners that got together to hook up and extend hoses to fight the southern portion of the fire while the fire crew was dealing with the northern part. The real troubling part was witnessing how long it took crews to get there and the small response. This isn't meant to be critical of the fire crew, just an observation of the limits of living here.
To 2:27:
Shortly afterwards Ocean Park spent time and money trimming and clearing out trees on the coast for fire protection. They mentioned our fire as the reason why.
To others:
Do some research on the Wildland urban interface, which we are part of. The fact that we have many lots with trees close together goes against fire protection practices they recommend. Also, listen to fire experts that have dealt with the large fires in California and elsewhere and they will tell you the main reasons for fires to grow and spread quickly is due to a combination of high winds and crown fires. We have the high winds, now you all want to add the tall crowns.
Over the years when this subject comes up I've noticed that it is usually the part timers who ignore any fire concerns and belittle those of us who do. If the unthinkable were to happen and homes were destroyed by fire they have a main home to live in whereas those of us who only have a place here would be homeless.
@8:59 Well then, if we were rendered homeless, then the rude dismissive "move if you don't like it" theory folks would have their wish now wouldn't they?
Fire is as fire does. Trees are as trees be. People are as people will do.
Landslides, building collapses, wildfires, flooding, earth quakes, all part of the irresponsible human element. This world is quickly facing the worst environmental catastrophe due to ignoring the science. It is your children, grandchildren and future who will suffer worse than us.
Sad really but just keep destroying anything that looks environmental. Keep it up humans.
But oh well, seems no one really cares, right? Happy 4th of July! Have fun leaving your toxic waste and fire danger on our precious resource.
The environmental destruction has not even begun. The first round only addressed a few hundred lots to the north for the most part. There are hundreds more to go. The new compliance "routes" have been drawn and the policeman has been hired and trained.
You can't provide for every possibility. Trees are flammable, so cedar-clad homes, common on the Coast, are flammable. Wood-clad homes, flammable. Beach grass-VERY flammable. With great care, wildfires can be prevented. The Fourth IS a particularly dangerous time, as dry conditions can lead very easily to a grass fire.
We have to live our lives, remaining aware of dangers along the way. Why should a group of trees be more dangerous than a single tree ? Probably the Beach grass is the biggest danger firewise. It seems most members have taken precautions to keep the Beach grass cut to a safe distance from their homes. Many newer homes have no trees or bushes, but are built too close together.
The County standards are not practical in a residential area, and are more applicable to rural properties, often more difficult for firefighters to reach quickly.
Before we restart the proactive tree compliance we need to have a new emergency rule regarding how the over height trees are handled. We can't allow people who have 20-30 trees to just cut them to the allowable building height. If you cut more than 5-6 feet off the top of a tree it will die. If we don't make a rule about how the taller trees are going to become compliant, we are going to end up with more lots looking like the ones in the north end. If the tree height has to be lowered more than 5-6 feet we should require that it be removed completely.
@8:59, they were cooking outside and forgot to put the screen on when they walked in their trailer to grab something. The wild kicked up. It started in the dunes, not the trees.
Fires destruction is like guns. It is not the fire that causes damage, its the operator. Same for guns, its not the guns fault when shooting happens, it's the operator. If the chipper catches fire, will you blame the neighboring trees?
That chipper is our biggest liability!! It is in a residential neighborhood!! Would love to see the permits for this!!
That is truely ridiculous. These trees grow about a foot annually. In some cases trees this far over the limit haven't been sited because they aren't bothering anyone.
Unless carefully trimmed annually while in the tree's first ten years or so, major topping or trimming do permanent damage.
Most trees do not require ANY regular trimming or mantenance. Get rid of the program.
We need a jail holding cell in the office. Lock up all these surfside criminals. Plenty of room in the board room to add a cell. But to feed them only bread and water would be cruel treatment. We should not make them drink the water.
859 - when and where? Been here since 2002, don't recall it.
Another fish story? Sounds like!
What we have seen and confirmed is that you people will not let the truth stand in your way a promoting your agenda.
@8:40, there was a dune fire a few years back as mention from a fire pit with the top off while they stepped away to get something.
@8:59, I know the owners of this house you mention, the inside did not catch fire, only scorched the eves. Trees burnt because they were in the way of the fire. Dune grass is highly flammable
Very few Surfside properties have clusters of trees, while a great many have NONE. We have several acres of continuous beachgrass between our house and the beach, and about 2 acres are our property, dotted with a few small trees. We removed one large tree that was leaning over our roof.
We have a 60 ft barrier of irrigated lawn between our house and the sea of beachgrass. We are obviously fire-aware, and should be as safe as needed.
Your obsession with this is not a shared concern, where so many properties have no trees, and have taken other precautions. My previous points are valid. Some people ignore all common sense -on both ends of the scale of opinion.
So now Peggy and Annette and Louise want to clean up the drainage ditches, Known as the canal and Seabreeze lake. Signs are not good enough as Annette previously thought. Sorry folks, but drainage ditches are not shorelines. Peggy and company cannot make anyone plant anything on their property. Peggy wants to be in charge of riparian zone.. the tree nazi heads to the water now..I see lots of lawsuits heading our way.
What is hurting the ditches is all the over growth of trees and branches hanging into the waters. Remove those and all the algea that goes with it. Get some irrigation going and this is a start to the problem.
Post your property!!!
Camera up folks!!
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