March 2021 Summary....
Audio is now posted on surfsideonline.org under Board Minutes. The recording at the bottom incorrectly lists the recording as 4-18-2020. It should be 3-20-2021
SURFSIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION
REGULAR BOARD MEETING SUMMARY
March 20, 2021
President Gary Williams called to order the Regular Board Meeting of the Surfside Homeowners Association at 9:00 am. Trustees present via Webex were Mark Scott, Ric Minich, Rudd Turner, Kurt Olds, Dan Neptun, Mariann Schweitzer, Tom Rogers
Gary Williams safety message addressed working safely in and around the home. Use your knees and not your back, don’t try to lift and carry overly heavy items especially if going up or down stairs.
The agenda for the March 20, 2021 regular board meeting was amended and approved.
The minutes from the February 20, 2021 Regular Board Meeting were approved.
Trustee Assignments were discussed, and Tom Newman was added as a trustee until the July 2021 Annual Meeting and will remain the chairman of the Water System Planning Committee. Motion was passed accepting the new trustee assignments.
Floor Comments: Questions from member Paul Crouch were read. 1.) Where did the desire to change the lighting covenant come from? Kurt Olds responded that the ARC had received many complaints and wanted some clarity on the covenant. Gary Williams added that a hearing will be held at the Annual Meeting for the members to voice their opinions prior to the board vote on the covenant change. 2.) If the new covenant is adopted will the ARC then be required to have any new build plans include exterior lighting plan and details on fixtures such as spec sheets to ensure the new covenant is being followed and will they do a follow up inspection once construction is complete? Gary Williams responded that the more information the better and that the lighting specs will be added, approved and verified during the design approval.
Old Business
• Code of Civility- More discussion on the fine structures, no motions were made.
• Multi-Dwelling Fee- After discussion, motion passed to keep the multi-dwelling fee in place.
• Complaint #5599- permits have been filed with Dept of Fish and Wildlife
New Business
• 2021-2026 Financial Strategic Plan – motion passed adopting the 2021-2026 Financial Strategic Plan.
• Compliance- with the resignation of compliance officer Georgia Olsen, business manager Tracy Lofstrom is researching new software for compliance and gave a demo of prospective software. A motion was made to pursue compliance software. A second motion was passed suspending abundant pro-active compliance for 60 days until we have a new compliance officer, new software in place and continuing with all escrow inspections. Item will be discussed at the May 2021 Regular Board Meeting.
• Fishing Derby- will be postponed until July 4th weekend or to Labor Day depending on the COVID-19 restrictions in place.
• Golf Tournament- Discussion on the timeline of the tournament, possibly a date of June 12th with no raffle or later in August with COVID-19 restrictions permitting.
• Nominating Committee – Ric Minich advised no one has stepped up to be on the nominating committee for the 2021 Board Elections but we have had one candidate apply so far.
• Waterway Treatments- motion was passed to accept the bid from Eradipest to treat the waterways at a cost o $13,709.24 including tax.
• Asphalt Bids-Motion passed accepting the bid from ABCDE Paving Company (Astoria ,OR) at a cost of $8,300 for repairs at 320 Place, J Place & I Street.
• Brusseau Deck- member deck was built over property line into the member owned accretion. No motions were made, members to submit photos at next board meeting and allowing time for ARC to re-evaluate their decision.
• All Staff, committee & trustee reports were accepted.
Meeting adjourned at 12:50 pm
52 comments:
If they can't get members to run for the board, maybe they should reduce the number of trustee's. Most contribute very little anyway.
There's no justification for the HOA to specify acceptible light fixtures. These are choices members are entitled to make according to their needs. Some households may have handicapped family members, many elderly members have diminishing visual acuity, some may have frequent concerns about bears or other wildlife.
Canister type lights are quite practical for many areas such as porches, but everyone needs area lights at their entrances that are certain to extend past property lines, but keeping wattages in the 60 to 75 watt range is usually plenty of light.
The "new" proposal offers no real guidelines, and reasonable wattages in area lights are rarely a problem to neighbors. Many owners do not leave any exterior lights on in the evenings, and few leave them on all night unless they are fearful of Bears or other prowlers.
But such things in this semi-urban environment are decisions each owner has a right to decide. It's not an HOA decision. They are tasked with addressing valid individual concerns, not telling all community owners how to live.
Wattage limits are a poor solution. Most water proof outdoor bulbs are available in 75 and 150 wt. flood and spot. Many fixtures also have two holders on one fixture. Dimmer switches are also used. The home or property owner is the one to decide what is best for them, not the association. Each issue should be handled on an individual basis.
If the concerns of the HOA are lights casting beams onto neighboring properties, limiting wattage is the obvious way to minimize that. But it isn't reasonable or practical to prevent this.
If the HOA is seeking to placate "Dark Skies" advocates, limiting wattages within reason, helps accomplish this.
Really, I think most owners are not inclined to leave exterior lights on when they aren't needed. So better that the HOA limits their restrictions, when the evidence is clear that most owners are responsible about light use, choosing to use electricity only where it is needed.
Limiting wattage's will not solve the problem. How the light is cast and in the direction will. Responsible light use is in the eye of the beholder. Sounds like neat and tidy. How are you going to enforce a bulb wattage? Makes no sense from an enforcement practicability. Clancy made more sense with his light meter.
Lower wattage produces lower lumens, which is what the light meter measures. Your the high beams on your car are a higher wattage than the dims, so they penetrate farther.
Only floods and motion-sensor lights are adjustible directionally. Most entrance lights do not. I do not favor intrusive enforcement, so understand my comment is a response to what the BOT claims to be their objective.
The "Dark Skies"advocates want to minimze artificial lights used after dark in Surfside, and consider it "light polution. Small communities don't produce a significant amount of such light, where many urban areas are flooded with light all night long. So it's absurd to think a community with a large contingent of retired folks needs to minimize light use, and take risks in safety in order to use as little light as possible.
Are we that incompetent we cannot even get the date correct, let alone the year for the latest audio of the meeting!
Steve, I would really like to see you run for the board again! We need BOT members who are against all these stupid covenants, we need change and we need new people in there!
To the 2:24 comment. The majority of lighting complaints were because of the owners leaving their lights on all night.
And bears have no issues with lights, at least in this area.
Such complaints are easily resolved without changing any covenants. And no one said anything about Bears having any "issues" with lights. Where they often come around owners may choose a specific light regimen. They aren't often seen on the westside. Care to safe practices where Bears frequent is wise.
Has anyone listened to the board meeting tape yet?
All I could stand was the first part with the Gary safety message where he said he would come to your house and help you lift a pot. The recording was the usual surfside standard. Crappy. At least I didn't have to see old's in his want to be a man shirt and minich licking his fingers. 10 minutes was all I could take.
Me too! Got to the dark sky part, had to stop as we need to go buy some more water!! It sounds like it will take a full time building inspector/ architect to have anything done here!!
Probably don't need to boil water. They are just to lazy to take sample in for testing. To hell with the members, they can wait. There is no one here that is qualified or certified and licensed to measure anything such as lights or trees.
I can't believe I would ever live in a place where people are annoyed with neighbors leaving their lights on at night. Seriously, go to bed and forget about what your neighbor is doing or not doing. Oh so petty and not worth anyone's minutes left on this earth. Seriously, one day, your world will be turned upside down and your days will be over so find something productive and worth living for to do.
Unbelievable!
It is only a few, 2:24, who have nothing better to do with their time than to constantly complain about not only their neighbors, but also everyone else. Most of us just want to live a quiet peaceful life and just be left alone. Those same few are the ones in control and write all the complaints, even when they do not effect themselves. I guess it makes them feel important in their little unimportant life. Most of the folks in Surfside are really nice, but it only takes a few to make us all look bad. Maybe some day they will get the message that we don't like them, respect them or want them to live here.
I stopped boiling water long ago after the test always came back fine. I'm still here, never sick from it either. I figure if my dog is fine with it, I can be too. People in other countries drink out of way worse conditions than a broken pipe here and there. Just do your thing... Carry on...........
Did I hear correctly from the meeting recording that sometimes 40 or 50 complaints are turned on at one time by committee members? Really is that what they do? This is very disturbing to me, how about you?
As a single woman who lives alone and a past victim of a violent crime, there is NO ONE and I mean NO ONE who will ever tell me to turn my lights off at night.
Just try it! We will be in court for real!
@3:11, yes it only takes, Peggy, Annette, and Pam Harris to walk or drive around and turn everyone in. In years past, it was Pam Harris who did all the tree complains. She is also a J placer. Peggy will be the first one to turn in her neighbor for neat and tidy, she hates all her metal yard art and has a truck full sitting in the driveway, lol
@8:24, I totally agree with you! We have many single residents both young and old in Surfside. It is every individuals right to have lights for safety. I plan to run for the board and I will do my best to fight for you. We need 4 good people in there who are against these stupid covenants to change the mindset of this current board and some comitteee members. A few do not run us all as some else else said.
I can tell you one thing, until someone else starts paying our PUD bill, our lights will stay on as we want them. We have not adopted officially the “dark sky”‘covenant , so why is this being pursued?
So if this new covenant is voted in by the board our letter of March 2019 saying our lights are in compliance will be invalid? You can’t keep changing the rules for no apparent reason
Joanne, if they, the BOT or the new compliance person has nothing better to do at night than drive around surfside, they need a life. Its also a good way to get shot being near someone's property at night when you have no business.
As I was brushing my teeth this morning, plastic water bottle in hand feeling like I was camping in my own home, I was wondering what happened to this place we call home? Nothing like this turmoil was going on back in 2008 and we loved it so much we sold our other home and moved here permanently in 2017.
Why now is it such urgency to purchase compliance software to make it easier and more efficient for our compliance person to give out complaints? We are still living under the same covenants! The change is that in one meeting the BOT changed the covenant of complaints to a “compliance” one, not complaint. This was done with no notice or hearing for the members. It has created this atmosphere of distrust and power to some committee members. When I hear in the meeting our manager stating that we have to have a moratorium on complaints from committee members until we hire a new compliance officer, because the office can’t handle the 40 or 50 co plaintiff that the committee people bring in at one time, I’m disgusted and alarmed! Surely nothing has changed so drastically that we need to issue this volume of complaints.
As stated earlier, we are still under the very same covenants as we have been for years!
You're the one who brought up the bears Steve not me. Not seen often seen on the westside? Guess it depends on your definition of often. Maybe not down at the beach but I have many security cam videos that say different.
To 2:24:
For normal lighting yes, it's when the owner has them so bright they light up the neighborhood that it becomes a problem. You can't go to bed and forget about it when your bedroom is lit up by your neighbors. I guess you feel they should spend the money for black out curtains instead of the offender changing their bulbs.
Got it.
I agree, "we are still under the very same covenants as we have been for years".
And as the proactive compliance and complaints have shown, people have been VIOLATING them for years!!!
@8:58, have you had a friendly conversation with your neighbor, or would you rather cause trouble and have the compliance person do it for you. My husband deals with ugly people like you everyday.
9:03 anonymous. And when this has been the case and the board decides to crack down after neglecting them for years, this is called”selective enforcement”. Totally illegal!
It's called a negligent and irresponsible HOA!
8:53....You obviously want to keep yanking my chain, so are unwilling to identify your sorry ass. The northend of Longbeach peninsula has a huge population of Black Bears.
We own TMT property on G St.. In more than 5 years of visiting here, we've never seen a Bear on our property. Remote cameras have caught them pulling down birdfeeders and hummingbird feeders. So no one leaves feeders out. I don't have a clue what your big"gotcha!"is here.
We don't leave any lights on at night but can see where some folks might feel more comfortable with nightlights on. They are experts at sneaking around and can be nearby without your knowing.
If you see Bears often, garbage or birdfeeders are bringing them into the residential area, and that is bad practice. They are very dangerous when surprised, and females may have cubs in-tow.
Here again, claims of rampant violations, but no one can ever describe what these terrible violations are.
We have a County streetlight out front of our place. Semi-opaque curtains are enough to help me sleep without any problem, even facing it. The streetlight is at the pedestrian trail's edge, so helps with nightime pedestrian safety, lights the street crossing and pedestrian bridge, and our parking area.
I agree that these folks with their shorts in a knot about their neighbors have no other worthwhile focus in their lives. So-called compliance issues are all easily resolved by civil discussion, and somtimes needing to allow neighbors to have an occasional family get-together, maybe a few too many guests.
Compliance violations are often more aggravating to neighbor relations than productive. If you go looking for compliance issues, grey areas start looking like violations. It's counter-productive.
@March 29, 2021 at 8:58 AM
why wouldn't you want black out blinds or drapery in your bedroom? This technology is fantastic I must say. You can lay down in the middle of day if you have a headache and come summer, it helps keep the room cooler. I would never have any other kind of window covering in a bedroom. You should try it, I think it would make you happier. Oh, and talking with your neighbor about the light would also help. I asked a neighbor to remove a huge wind chime that was extremely loud at night and they were so embarrassed and took it down immediately. People want to be kind, you can try it sometime, see what happens.
P.S. I have been here three years, haven't seen a bear yet anywhere on the Pen.
@10:30. Agree on the curtains! Why wouldn't you close them at night??? Bears could care less if you have lights or not. We have them come through frequently.
Why we are even paying for a compliance person is beyond me. We are not the biggest HOA in the state, but we sure act like it. The entire pacific county has 1 code enforcement officer and he won't touch surfside and he was our sheriff. What does that tell you? A few need to get over themselves. I sure hope we get new blood on the board that wants to get rid of the bullshit
Why do you assume anyone thinks lights scare Bears? My point is that for some people, leaving an exterior light on allows you to see what is or isn't on your porch before you go outside at night. That isn't foolish, nor is it anyone else's judgement call. We don't leave any lights on, but it is wise to be cautious at night, and carry a flashlight. I've been camping in the mountains for 50 years without any mishap, but always use caution.
Lights fo not scare off bears. Last year when we had a bear visitor a couple of times, our backyard lights were on. Good thing because if anyone of us would have gone to the garage, he would have been right there! We have no bird feeders or garbage. He just choose for a period of time to search around this neighborhood.
We also don’t want to walk outside in the dark and meet someone lurking around.
Right JoAnne. You never know when some creep will be out at night lurking around. Our exterior lights will save our lives. I'm very scared at night. I need my lights on all night. I will fight for this!
Well anonymous 10:18 you will have to fight for it trust me!! When we appealed our lighting complaint in 2019, part of our appeal was for safety. At that time we had no full time neighbors and being on the approach road there is lots of “odd” traffic late at night. We were told by certain board members that lights don’t deter criminals, it invites them in! This in spite of the fact we presented them with a very factual, data attached letter from county sheriff Souvenir!
The dark sky policy is already trying to be implemented here without any official action or input from members!
I'm often impressed by blogger's tendency to misread other's comments. I was told to close my blinds in my bedroom, which I don't leave open,( and stated so).
I said that bears are rarely seen on the westside except on security cameras at feeders left out. Which then got the reply, "rarely seen?, we see them all the time on our security cameras."
And I said that people who often have Bears roaming around, may feel more comfortable leaving exterior lights on, so they don't surprise a Bear if they go out at night. That got several replies that Bears don't fear lights. No one said they do. But they could be less than 10 feet away without being noticeable. They can be very dangerous if surprised.
The point being made was that we each need to determine what exterior lighting best serves our needs and safety. It's not the HOA's business to be setting detailed criteria pulled out of their backsides. Their role if needed, is to mediate individual conflicts between neighbors if they are unable to do so on their own. We need to own our personal preferences, and try civil neighborly discourse with neighbors whose lights, dogs, noise, smoke, creates a problem for us. Showing respect to our neighbors by going directly to them, is the best way to start. Many would apprecite not being blindsided by an HOAcompliance notice instead.
But HOAs are expected to play a mediating role when it's needed.
The misreading of comments and personalizing of words is the biggest problem with this blog. Too bad only some people get to defend themselves while others get deleted. I've determined this is an unhealthy place to try and help anyone. Face to face or nothing at all.
I'm OK with the blog administrator monitoring his blog as he sees fit.
Some are very cringeworthy. I find lots of the comments to be very informative but I can do without the name calling and sniping.
As far as the lighting thing goes, I agree with JoAnne. The board has not surveyed members regarding whether or not they even want to implement this so called "dark sky" policy.
The first step is to ask!!!!
Instead of sending the proposed lighting covenant changes with the annual meeting notice, they should send a questionnaire (with a stamped return envelope and/or link to something on the website) to get actual feedback from all members. Putting something on Facebook or in the Weekender is not reaching the entire membership.
The HOA should survey the members from time to time to get a true understanding of what they want. Especially when it comes to some of these very contentious covenants. We put money in the budget for a lawyer for compliance enforcement but not on getting useful feedback from 2000+ members??
I agree, and have been stating that for weeks now.
Does anyone know where (on the SHOA website) the starting/ending terms of the Trustees are posted? It is not on the Board of Trustees 2020/2021 chart. Just wondering whose terms are ending. I believe one is Gary he was elected to the 1 year term in 2020 and one is Clancy's vacant position? It's not Mariann, Tom or Dan they were elected to 3 year terms in 2020.
Tom is an appointed replacement for a Trustee who resigned, as is Gary Williams. The new appointee will serve only until the next election. I believe that both Mark Scott and Kurt Olds will be ending their terms also.
Don't have any feeders on my property. There is no "gothcha" here, just in your mind. You made a comment and I responded, something you do all the time. I now find this whole bear thing with Cox, who as always can't let it go when someone responds to a comment HE has made, unbearable. So please, just stop.
To Rhonda F. So what do you do when you talk with the neighbor and they say no? Seeing the attitude of some here is the number one reason why some of us older folks find it better to just make a complaint. And Btw, if indeed the complaint is valid, it isn't the one who made the complaint or the compliance person who is causing trouble, it's the person who is in violation. Please stop with the victim shaming. And to your husband, he married you so he can't complain about who he deals with daily.
And again. The board cracking down on everyone equally now is NOT selective enforcement.
@March 30, 2021 at 4:01 PM
Touche- Glad I'm not the only one who spots the bully's here. Although Joanne may need grace. I think she sometimes gets caught up unintentionally. We have the same concerns but these bullies keep getting in the way. I would never work with them either.
Ok anonymous3:54. Selective enforcement is when a board ignores the covenants for years and then decides to crack down with compliance. Look it up! And 4:91 you don’t know me from a bush, but such an advantage you have because you know exactly who I am! We would have gladly worked out our lights with neighbors, but that’s not where the complaint came from! Wait till you get a complaint from someone just driving around and then when you make corrections and try to work with the board and they do not tell you what more you should do. Then you get a letter months later saying you’re in compliance! This is supposed to work both ways with the procedure of appeals, but it sure didn’t with us! “Who knows what they would do?” Followed the covenants, singled out, process not followed by the board, only by us!
Anonymous @ 4:01
I do not know you and you do not know me, because of that you really have no right to judge me or my actions nor the actions of Steve, Rhonda, or JoAnne.
That being said stop by and talk with my neighbors or myself before you pass your unjustified opinions!
@Joanne one can find multiple meanings for selective enforcement in terms of HOA: https://cedarmanagementgroup.com/hoa-selective-enforcement/ and https://www.hopb.co/blog/facts-about-selective-enforcement-by-an-hoa are two examples. One type is when a particular individual is targeted and the other is when a restriction is not enforced consistently. So perhaps one could use the inconsistent enforcement of the tree policy as a defense. I'd anticipate a counter that it was enforced consistently when a complaint was filed OR that Covenants section 6.13 stating no waiver would apply.
Regarding Mr. Cox and his bear comment, his first response at 1:29 said "They aren't often seen on the westside" with no other reference to feeders, etc.
Just thought I'd point that out. 🙂
@3:54, are we in high school and play anonymous games?
If an attempt with a neighbor doesn't go well, be the bigger person and suck it up like we have. I have a life and seriously don't need to waste time complaining to a non qualified compliance person, or filling out a complaint.
You have no idea what my husband does, and I never said he complains did I. I said he deals with ugly people like you everyday.
Why do you continue to beat on Steve? You continue to bring it up.
If someone above was calling me a bully, I'm okay with that. I won't take shit from people or from other board members.
6:13.... Lame....Then thebreply was "not often seen! We see them all the time on our security camera!" - which doesn't qualify as seeing them in person-and we were talking about nightlights. I then said that neighbors had only seen them when they left birdfeeders out. None of this is significant enough to discuss further.
3/28 1:29 AM: "And no one said anything about Bears having any "issues" with lights. Where they often come around owners may choose a specific light regimen. They aren't often seen on the westside."
Just stating facts Steve. Something you like to twist when you get defensive. Nothing to discuss further as long as you get the last word - right?
Time to end the "conversation" that has turned into a contest of name calling ego's. Discussion on all sides of an issue are welcome. Who is most clever at name calling is very boring and of no interest except to those doing the calling. Stick to the issues.
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