The automated call came at 4:00 am Sunday morning for all of Surfside to boil water due to a break. No other information available at this time.
Pacific County Fire District 1, conducted a controlled burn of the association owned building on G Street near the office. The heavy black smoke was reported to be drifting North.
Thank you Al Franklin for the picture.
Click on the picture for a larger view:
48 comments:
They're calling this a controlled burn ? Looks like there's little to no wind, which was apparently the only "controlled" part of this. This was a stupid thing to do. The pitch by Clancy who dreamed this up, was that it would save money. In the long run, it will save very little money, while creating a dangerous situation, and a huge mess that will be much more unpleasant to clean-up.
An Ocean Park company had bid the job at about $5000. meanwhile, the BOT was deciding to rent property on the golf course for gravel storage at great expense. The remaining debris will still need to be cleaned-up and disposed of at a cost of surely half or more the bid, and the neighborhood will wreak of stale fire debris.
We have plenty of pollution and accidental fires, and we get drift from Asia and the failed Japanese Nuclear Plants here in the N.W.. We have had to bear the smoke of the huge fires in British Columbia, and the Columbia Gorge fires, promised more is to come by climate scientists.
There are plenty of private rural properties that would be glad to donate a fallen barn or outbuilding to such an exercise, there being no need to burn a large structure in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I don't see how they could have prevented this from spreading, had a wind come up.
We rarely see the HOA reticent to spend money frivolously, like taking a member to Superior Court over shed eaves, or trees that insist on growing. Maybe $2000 less cost out of a budget of 1.2 million dollars, and all of this pollution created without valid reasons.
I agree with Cox. We must stop participating in this program.
We supposedly cut trees because of fires, the cover up for views, then volunteer to set fires.
No Thanks SHOA Overloads (Trustees).
The burn was a little too close to home for Cox. Suddenly, he is concerned about smoke when he showed no sympathy or understanding when others have complained of smoke on this blog. If the burn was far away from his place, he would not give a damn about it.
Steve you are wrong regarding the training fire, these opportunities for training do not come up very often.
The bigger problem is the frailty of the water system in its inability to handle fire operations. Yes the main failure and the training fire are related.
When we did our annual water system flushing, we pushed the system pretty hard to find these lurking weak spots. you would be surprised how many water main failure that occurred some distance away from where the water was actually flowing.
Does anyone want to make a guess as to why this happens?
Bob Haskin
Pacific Design Service
I contacted the people in the know about the water line break. Here is the question, and the answers:
What caused the line break?
Bill Neal..."wet sand on fluffy soft sand"
James Flood...."old used pipe"
Gary Williams.." I don't know, paint it yeller"
Peggy Olds..."Those damn trees"
James Clancy.."I will file a complaint. No, 6"
Annette deLeast..."Rv blew over on the pipe"
Gil.."Ask Bill, yes sir"
GM Reber.."Don't know, but will take a course."
Does anyone know where the break occurred? Please share if you know. Was it in new pipe or old pipe?
9:41...You're trying awfully hard to find something to bitch about and tying it to me. Your statement is a mischaracterization of my comments on the Blog. What I said about complaints about "smoke" was that the community is a mixed-use community, and campers and RVers have a right to make campfires.
If where you own property is near such sites, your best bet for having any control of it is to make every effort to establish friendly relations with the folks that are smoking you out. Without an effort to try and establish a line of communication, the "offenders" may not be very cooperative when you have complaints.
It is likely that things get smoky more often on weekends, and particularly during clam-digs. You may need to be more tolerant during holidays or clam-digs. If you can be somewhat flexible, you can probably get such neighbors to be cooperative.
It also doesn't help that the HOA tends to make such a fuss about covered woodpiles on RV lots, as wet wood makes a smoky fire. Constant demands to top trees generates a lot of branches that can't always be disposed of easily - so much of that material ends up being stored and burned.
In general, the HOA can't really do much about this issue, and prevailing winds are generally coming off of the Ocean, and not from the East. I have interest in issues anywhere in Surfside, so I don't know where you got the idea I don't care about anyone but me, or that I don't understand this as an issue. We have a new RV site nearby. I introduced myself, and we had a cordial discussion of community restrictions. My neighbor did the same. That's a place to start.
This is a difficult issue, and there are no easy solutions, but to find some compromise. The HOA could try to make dry wood available, and make it clear that gathering beach wood is prohibited. Saturated wood WILL burn if put on a bed of coals, but it takes forever, smokes constantly, and will not generate ANY heat. But many folks are not particularly sensible about this stuff, or concerned about neighbors. I can assure you, I have never said I don't care or understand this as an issue. I can't fix it, and I know that.
For me, I like the smell of burning wood be it wet or dry.
Brings back many memories for me.
Bob.... I appreciate your incite on such things, and understand that it is useful to determine where weak spots may be. I don't see that as a justification for putting cedar-clad buildings nearby at risk, or smoking-up a residential neighborhood.
Were nearby residences warned of this event, were signs put on telephone poles ? Anything done to alert the neighborhood ? My place is half a block away in an old cedar-clad 4plex, and we weren't notified. I consider this poorly conceived and not a valid way to determine pipeline problems. Had the water pressure failed and the wind picked-up, this would have been a serious fire that would have done considerable damage.
Steve, I understand your concerns but if I lived in those condos.
I would also want to make sure, that all the dune grass around your home is cut and that your condo's is in compliance with the firewise plans and recommendations.
FYI, that smoke from that burning 1 hour fuel (dune grass) source is truly a nasty smoke and its embers get into many nooks and crannies and the smoke is hard on those attacking the fire.
There is a Washington State law that smoking fire must be extinguished if anyone nearby has a health problem that is negatively affected by the smoke. The ORCA organization is the best place to receive full information about this.
I did see a notice somewhere about the burn. Honestly, I can't remember where it was. Perhaps one of you bloggers can speak up about the notification.
Cox continues to spout off about a lot of stuff that he does not research or understand. I do not want him to serve on the board because he is a trouble maker and a fool.
12:30 pm and water is off again in compactor area
From the picture posted here and the comments, this fire appears to me to be a mistake. What else is new with this place? Is the fire department paying for the clean up? We can't haul the burned stuff to the land fill. Our employees do not have a CDL license. Oh, I know, we can dump it in the wet lands.
George, that first 24 hours after a main break is a real B!
Been there done that toooooo many times
Water off on H street. Then on again with an overpowering odor of chlorine.
Surfside website says the main break was at 315th and I. Very close to the burn site and an area where new pipe has been installed.
Bring the water crew some coffee and donuts, they have already had a long day already and it is going to be even longer for them!
Just though I would point out that this was decided on months ago. It was in the Board minutes which also stated where it was going to be. Since that time not one person had gone to a board meeting to voice their complaints. Since it didn't have anything to do with trees it never caught traction on here. Now the usual suspects are coming on to complain.
To piggy back on 9:41's comment. Not only did certain people not give a damn about smoke, they didn't seem to care about fire either. When I bring up that coastal fire and how if the wind had been different there would have been more damage done I get ridiculed. Same with how it spread because of the crown fires from those little pine tree and how it would have been worst if it had gotten to tall trees. Now all of a sudden people see possible fire issues. At least the fire crew was here for this burn unlike then.
Ive lived in many different jurisdictions in my life. This is the first that had main breaks, specially with new pipe. Me thinks someone has no clue.
Is there bottled water at the surfside office for us?
Office closed Sunday and Monday. Shelves of water at Okies nearly empty. Don't know about Jacks.
2:44.... I expressed my objections on the Blog in several comments back when it was first decided on, and voiced my objections at the Office. I spoke with my immediate neighbors as well. Other comments relating to the brush fire that occurred 2 1/2 years ago have acknowledged that the beachgrass is very flammable, that owners should keep trees and shrubs cut-back from their homes, and that the rare occasion of such a fire does not somehow justify tree-topping.
The decision to burn this building was made last Spring or Summer, and owners expressed their concern that they be notified when it was to happen. That's a very reasonable expectation that was ignored by the HOA, as far as I can discern. This is not a "sudden" concern, nor has there been a lack of concern. You make a lot of assumptions.
From the 11/8/2019 weekender:
PACIFIC COUNTY FIRE DISTRICT #1 WILL BE CONDUCTING AN ACQUIRED STRUCTURE LIVE FIRE TRAINING BURN ON SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 2019, 31505 G ST.
BURN EXPECTED TO BEGIN BETWEEN 12-12:30 CLEAN UP WILL BE COMPLETED BY 3PM
ALL PERMITS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED THROUGH THE STATE OF WASHINGTON TO CONDUCT THIS TRAINING BURN.
Do you really think the Fire Dept would start a fire if conditions were not safe? And it rained Saturday as well. I seriously doubt there was any concerns about the fire spreading. 4:38 is again way off the mark with his comments...
Thank you for your comment 4:38. You provided just one of the many announcements that were provided. The HOA didn't ignore doing notifications as some want you to believe.
To that fire. Anyone who tries to tell you that the spread was due only to the dune grass either wasn't there or is lying. People who were like myself saw the wind take the burning debris from the shore pines yards downwind to ignite more fires. That is also how the one house eaves caught on fire. You can argue about topping if you like but to say that having groups of trees on a lot isn't a fire hazard is a lie. That's why afterwards Ocean Park spent money and man power clearing out and trimming trees on the coast.
But what do they know, right?
Better start topping that dune grass,lol
8:14.... So you think that this statement in the Weekender the day before the burn is an adequate notice ? It is well known that very few members read the Weekender, let alone rush to read it as soon as it is published. Notices could have been left at doorsteps in the immediate neighborhood, and posted on telephone poles with minimal effort.
I think that this was unnecessary, and didn't save a significant amount of money to be worth creating a pollution bomb. I don't doubt that the Fire Dept. has skills worthy of handling this, and I'm glad there wasn't any unexpected issues with containing the fire. On the other hand, the community will have paid a large price for this exercise, with the overtime repairs of multiple waterline failures.
It should be noted that our water system didn't handle this well, and we continue to see line failures, which in this case, were so frequent no one had any idea if the water could be safely used.
9:48.... Stop with the bullsh*t accusing people of lying. A lie is an intentional deception, and you don't grasp that. The fire you are constantly bringing up does not justify tree topping. Anything flammable can contribute to the spread of fire, and trees happen to be part of the ecosystem. Unless they are all cut shorter than the beachgrass, they will continue to be taller, and flammable.
Bob 11/10 10:53 AM. Water System. Please explain what you are saying and tell us why please.
Do you know if Surfside has implemented a water system engineering consultant's recommendations?
Re: November 12, 2019 at 7:16 AM
I have no idea, I have not seen the 6 year water planning changes since I left.
The engineer takes the needs of the community gathered from the various know it all committees and then spread those items out over the plan working period in manageable bite size items. There is no guarantee that it is logical.
If the water break was caused by this as some are saying then isn't for the good that we found out during a drill and not the real thing?
Bob. Do you mind answering your question you posted to us on 11/10 10:53 AM?
I mean no criticism, disrespect, nastiness, or negativity.
I'm a WA state Civil Engineer PE. Structural is the discipline I have mostly worked. I really like hydraulics and water systems. I've never worked in that discipline, but I have an understanding of the science.
I would like to hear what you have to say.
I have heard that considerable effort went into letting neighbors know this was soon to happen. That was my main concern once the project was eminent. My comments were out of concern for the safety of my fulltime neighbors in particular, and my investment. I still think that this was unnecessary and a pollution bomb we didn't need.
The successful execution of this is good news, and it seems it was handled well overall. My friend on the Arch Comm. tells me that the Fire Dept. claims to have few opportunities to do this, which doesn't make sense to me, with so many outbuildngs falling down in the County. Still, I don't think this is a good thing to do in the future in Surfside.
At 4:38 Cox had no problem accusing someone of making a lot of assumptions. Funny how now that the truth has come out he was just as guilty of making WRONG assumptions about there being no effort put forth to let the neighbors know of the burn. Always easy to blame the board, isn't it?
Interesting too about him having a friend on the Arch Committee. That explains why they escaped his rants concerning the lighting changes as opposed to the Tree Committee that gets blamed for everything. Most would label that hypocrisy, if they were honest with themselves.
2:12.... I had made my concerns and objections known, and have no problem acknowledging that the HOA did as good a job as possible, letting owners near the burn know what was going on. I still think this was a bad idea, but it went well, and I appreciate the fact that flyers were left on doors where owners were present.
You are a bonafide knothead 2:12. The Tree Policy is far more oppressive and a constant hassle for owners with trees, and based on the false contention that a few owners are guaranteed a "view". The lighting covenant never made sense, and still doesn't. But it doesn't begin to intrude into people's lives to the extent that the Tree Policy does.
I express myself freely on things I care to, and I don't have a particular problem with the lighting rules at this point. If I did, being friends with someone on the Arch Committee would have nothing to do with my opinion. You're an idiot, as I have said repeatedly. I'll be at the meetings on saturday if you want to meet me so bad. Let's see - I'm a POS fat ass.... what is it now ? Oh yeah, the worst public speaker ever, etc. Yeah, you've got it goin' on. I'm just jealous I guess.
Good one, lol.
Yes, I'm on it. Lol
What engineer? What know it all committees?
It sounds like your only talking about pipe replacements.
The problems with our water system could be more associated with detrimental pressure gradients in certain locations.
Water main breaks can happen from turning on or off fire hydrants too fast.
Oh Stevie, my point is and always will be that people who volunteer their time for committees shouldn't have to put up with personal attacks, rumors, false accusations or repeated statements that are lies. Just because you don't agree with the covenant is irrelevant.
Now to your last comment. Just a reminder, it was you that started the potty mouth name calling. I usually don't lower myself to that level but since you decided to go that route I responded in kind. If you were able to keep your composure I wouldn't have done so. Now once again you felt the need to go that route with the idiot and knothead remarks which I'll ignore this time. I do however find it interesting which of my remarks you chose to repeat here. To that, I do applaud your self awareness.
Dear Reverand Potty-mouth....J place owners on the Tree Comm. do the community no favors. It is all about them and their deserving special rights that no one else has, in spite of the covenants not guaranteeing ridgetop owners unique rights or anyone "views". That's not an attack, just a fact. I don't have any animosity toward anyone who volunteers to serve the community. The Tree Comm. does not serve the community, but serves J Place special interests that do NOT benefit the community. The BOT being mostly J place owners, assures that this policy, so damaging to the community, will continue its' insanity.
Are you both going to attend the November Meeting this Saturday?
Maybe you can discuss these issues over some coffee.
This person doesn't want to discuss anything, they just want to give me grief. My objective is always to try and inform and have civil discourse. When some yahoo counters with accusations that are baseless, and claims I have lied, I try to defend myself civilly with facts, which some like the Reverend, ignore. They're out to insult and demean.
It's a pointless exchange, and a waste of everyone's time - I do recognize that. Do you let someone trash your name, or address it ? Either way, it's useless banter. Sorry for that.
The blog host tells me I need to let it roll off my back and ignore it. However, I agree with you.
Yahoo? Reverend Potty-mouth? Again with the name calling (sigh). And what does the Reverend thing mean anyways? Since YOU'RE the one that started the name calling I'm curious, does that make you Pope Potty-mouth?
Again with the view thing, which as I stated was irrelevant to what I was commenting on. Saying that the Tree Committee doesn't serve the community is just your opinion which you are entitled to but it isn't factual. All committees serve the community. Most reasonable people know this. Constantly repeating an opinion doesn't make it a fact, it actually turns it into a lie.
Look at the latest hot topic, the proposed lighting changes. This was put to the board from the Arch Committee. Notice you don't have people on here attacking them in general and not against anyone who serves on it personally. If someone was to do so like you do with the Tree I would be on here defending that committee as well. Speaking of lights, are you aware that there have been complaints filed against J place members for lights by members in the valley? I've witness those complaints upheld by the "J BOT" during appeals. You are starting to remind me of the kid on The Six Sense. Instead of seeing dead people everywhere you see J placers.
Anyhoo, add me to the list of people who have been subjected to the Cox full meal deal when they have the audacity to question him. It starts with repeated responses that were not the topic to begin with, then moves into name calling when he loses composure and finishes with him playing the victim as he is doing now. From now on I'll call it being Cox'ed. Add to that him always needing to have the last word which will come next. Can't wait to read the new name you have for me.
Who will be Cox'ed today?
I'm going to attend the meeting this Saturday. I can't wait to see Cox in action.
I plan to attend the meeting. I do not plan on making any kind of scene, so I don't know what the Rev and friends are expecting. If I choose to, I may ask a question of the Board, but it won't be about their appointment of a Trustee nor am I disrespectful in such situations. I think you're high on ding-dongs.
Other than hearing a 1 minute question lasting five I don't expect anything.
Ding-Dongs now? When you consider the fact that besides a tasty treat it is also slang for idiot or a male body part, I believe we have witnessed a Freudian Slip.
Mic drop......
A legend in his own mind. Hope that'll do ya. You can volunteer for the open board position "mic-drop".
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