It's your meeting...
The Saturday Annual Meeting is your meeting. It is not a Board Meeting. The Board members present, can not make any motions. This is the only meeting of the year that members can make any motions. The Board will try, and probably succeed in blocking member motions. They will use legal terms to try and justify their denial of motions made or allowed. We saw this tactic used at last years meeting.
The only motions that can be made, are those by the members.
Speak up and speak out. During the comment agenda item, it is your chance to voice your concerns, thoughts and opinions. If you don't speak up, they will not know. They can't read your minds. Keep your comments directed to the Board, not to the other members present. If you think the Board has done favorable things, let them know. This can only encourage them to continue in a good practice, in your opinion. A compliment can do much to ensure continued positive performance.
When you are recognized to speak, state your name and Surfside address. This is required for the record, both written and recorded. Try to not be overly emotional, yell, curse or engage in personal attacks. This only weakens your comment. Keep it brief and concise. Always take the "high road". Do not interrupt other members when they have the floor and are speaking, no matter what they are saying.
It would be nice if the presiding official (Board President) would allow questions following the various reports. With the history of this particular President, I don't expect to see this happen. Examples would especially be the Treasures Report and the Water Report. There is no written policy that requires Board members to answer questions. We all know that they should. This is your meeting and you deserve answers. Some things they can not answer. Those are pending legal issues.
Some information will be only available if you attend the meeting. I will be attending to record and gather information to share with the members. I will not be an active participant in any actions at the meeting, other that casting my ballot and those who may have named me as their proxy.
Good luck to us all, we are going to need it.
25 comments:
I do not agree that the BOT cannot answer questions about the yet to be concluded EPA investigation, or any of the other stuff relating to the Water Dept. Legal issues that relate to specific individuals may need to be limited in scope of discussion, but this all began a year ago, and still the Board is mum about what has taken place.
Clearly no single individual is responsible for the morass of missteps in management, so we need to stop pretending this is a closed matter. Community money has been spent to pay large fines, and pay legal fees, and this is still taking place. What has or will be done to address the mistakes and lack of oversight that led to these missteps that led to major HOA violations of County, State and Federal regulations.
Personally, I think that the Board sees this shield that the attorneys have recommended as a way to avoid talking about this at all, ever, and that is a clear violation of State requirements for all such HOA business to be public domain. Transparency is the law.
Trustees are fairly well protected from personal blame by our covenants, and with 9 Trustees there are a lot of people sharing responsibility for every decision that is acted upon. Responsibility needs to acknowledged and remedies detailed. There are no valid excuses to continue to ignore the membership and their right to know exactly what is going on.
So you're saying if elected that you will ignore any recommendations from the legal firm that is paid to protect our interests. Good to know.
He did not say that, so don't try to put words in his mouth. I agree that something needs to be said about the fix we are in, but in regard to legal matters it can be very complex. I believe that Steve is correct that they are using the attorney advice to say nothing. I do think that when all this shakes out, some individuals will be more responsible than others, but all bare some responsibility in a cover up and lack of any correction.
If the attorney tells the trustees to not discuss an ongoing investigation, why would they discuss it. Either you follow your attorney’s advice or you don’t. BTW, when you state that the board is hiding behind the attorney, you are saying the board should ignore the attorney’s advice. Mr. Cox would be a horrible Trustee. I would not trust him with any confidential information.
Unless you are a select Board member, you do not know the advice from the attorney. Don't forget that most of the Trustees have also retained their own private counsel. They will have individual advice. They are paying for that out of their own pockets. We, the members, are paying for the association attorney, who is representing the association.
You have no way to know if that's true. And what is "most" anyways. Just more mud to throw as usual.
I realize Cox can do no wrong in your eyes but he clearly stated that the trustees are using the attorney as a shield, so nobody is putting words in his mouth.
Yes, we the members are paying the attorney, nobody said otherwise. So if the attorney says to not discuss it, as 8:10 points out they shouldn't.
Mr Cox stated the board was using the attorney as a shield. If that doesn’t mean the attorney told them to not disclose details about the investigation, what does it mean. You just can’t have both ways George. Mr Cox is a very prolific blogger. We do not have to guess what he is all about. He would disclose sensitive legal matters to members even if Surfside’s attorney advised him not to. That makes him a liability as a trustee. Smart members would not vote for him.
So who are the assoc lawyers protecting? The members who pay for his advice? Or the bot members manipulating the situation on our dime?
You watch to much television. There is no conspiracy here. There is an investigation into an incident or maybe a practice. The less chatter the more likely any fines or penalties will be minimized. So by not talking about it the board is protecting us. So let’s be patient and wait for the investigation to finish. Then we can eviscerate the mistake ridden board and all of our employees stupid enough to make mistakes.
They protect the people that pay the bill… the board.
The rest of us are more or less helpless observers. We pay our money, and just let it happen to us.
If there are fines, we will all be paying them. Get off your high horse. I do not want any of my dues and assessments being used to pay fines. If Surfside is fined, I want that fine to be the lowest fine possible. What do you want? You sound like a self righteous zealot out to right all wrongs and bring all to justice And damn the cost. How do you fit your ego into your head? Let’s try and keep our eye on the ball. What is the ball you ask. Get out of this mess spending the least amount of money.
If elected I will abide by the Board's position, and if required, do as I am asked by the Board. The fact remains, that most of this stuff was detailed by the Blog back in late November, and the stuff having to do with the mishandling of Asbestos was detailed by the Chinook Observer in early December.
There is no "if there are fines" - $27,000 were paid to L&I last Summer, and $45,000 were spent on Asbestos Abatement. Since last Summer we know of no further fines, though it is said that the EPA investigation has not been concluded. Bottom line is, member funds have been paying attorney fees and fines for the HOA's failure to provide oversight of operations at the Waterworks over a period of years. What has been done, or will be done to remedy this management failure ?
This should be a concern for all owners, and the HOA has been entirely silent about all of this. The BOT is in the process of further solidifying our alliance with North Beach Water, who employ Mr. Neil the Water manager. Strangely enough, our contract with North Beach agrees that Surfside is responsible for everything that goes on at our facility, and our contract with Neil makes him responsible for everything. Think there's a problem there ?
To our knowledge, nothing has changed in our management since the violations were first addressed by the government agencies, with the exception of following proper protocol in laying and disposing of pipelines.
With this big a mess created a year ago, I am not about to get myself embroiled in stuff I have had nothing to do with. Rest assured that I will not be talking publicly about this if elected, if that is what is asked of me by fellow Board members. But we DO know what the specific management failures were and many details have been shared on the Blog, so not everyone who knows the inside story believes it is a private matter.
But I am a man of my word, and should I be asked to be silent about this stuff, I will do so. I just think it serves no real purpose at this point, and the BOT should detail the entire array of issues, including the still missing permitting to continue Water Dept. operations at the current site.
I am n ex water employee that was interviewed by the EPA. I was exposed repeatedly to asbestos with no warning i was doing so n no protection. I have never been contacted by shoa. Thoughts?
Your concerns point to the lack of evidence that this needs to be kept quiet. We are having an election tomorrow, and 2 of the candidates have been central to the management failures that let this mess come to life.
You deserve to know how and why this took place, and what is being done about it. You deserve answers to questions you undoubtedly have about potential health issues you may face, and what your status is in terms of any compensation or health coverage.
I'll abide by the Board's position if asked to, but I have a lot of questions that need to be answered about the continuing stonewalling of member inquiries. Your concerns should be addressed to the extent they can be, and updates given as they develop. That's my personal opinion.
speaking out of both sides of your mouth is not trustworthy.
And which CYA candidate are you 12:04?Look what trust has got us in the past. Only one candidate has spoken anything about this mess. That is Mr. Cox. He has my vote.
You folks have been watching too many lawyer shows on TV. There is a saying that "the truth always wins out". So if you are telling the truth, why the silent treatment? You are not going to get away with it. We all know of the fines, etc that have occurred already, they are no secret, except admission by the Board. We know the latest buzz word is "transparency" and believe me, their is none of it from the group that is currently on the Board. Our lawyer is only continuing to line his pockets with this action of denial and silence. If you can't tell the truth to your constituents, then you need to get out, do the honorable thing and resign. I also agree that at least two of the candidates running for election are very responsible for the mess we are in, one much more than the other. Topping it off, that candidate is supporting spending $300k to remodel the RV lot and Compactor. Could and should be done for under $30k, but have already spent 150% of that-and not a single shovel turn. Confession is good for the soul Mr. Williams, you and your cohorts need to "man up" and confess to your actions.
If the four "Protect Surfside" candidates are elected, this mess will only continue and get worse. Our only hope may be jail time for the law breakers.
Somebody is living in a fantasy world. Do you really hope someone goes to jail? What a horrible thing to hope for. Of course they did commit a despicable crime. Bodies everywhere. Death and destruction. Oh wait, nobody really knows what the crime is. The investigation has not been completed. No collusion no obstruction until the investigation is complete.
You will think fantasy world when Surfside is required to pay millions of dollars to the asbestos fund for workers exposed to the hazards of exposure and the resulting medical and disability expense. This could bankrupt Surfside and leave members with an assessment that they will be paying for many years, and nothing to show for it.
Many do not know what the crime is, but some do know. They are the ones who knew the law and deliberately violated it. These are the ones who will go to jail. They will not get off with a slap to the wrist, and they know it. That's why they have their own lawyers.
And yes, I really do hope they go to jail. They have destroyed lives and deserve no less. They have lied to investigators, board members and the members of Surfside.
They are despicable, and so are you for making light of a very serious situation. It's not a fantasy world, it's a real world that no amount of cover up can hide. It really can be "death and destruction". Death to the employees and members exposed to asbestos and destruction of the Surfside Homeowners Association. Your smart ass attitude contributes to the problem, not the solution.
This kind of dialogue is discouraging and unnecessary. Policy is not decided by the Blog, and we have no evidence to indicate anyone will go to jail, or that there is a possibility of it. Yes, this is a serious matter and everyone should have been aware of the dangers of Asbestos and Federally mandated protocol in handling it.
But nothing is gained by making baseless assumptions and expressing such hatred in a blanket sort of way. We want to know the truth and to find solutions for avoiding similar mistakes in the future. This wild-eyed response does not move us closer to a candid honest response from the BOT, and is counter-productive.
The ongoing "criminal" investigation makes jail time possible. Candid honest response from our board is an "oxymoron". If you had been exposed to asbestos as heavily as i was, you might have a different attitude.
How do you know it is a criminal investigation. I very well could be a civil investigation. You do not know what you think you know.
The EPA investigator told me so when i was interviewed. I have an e-mail from the investigator thanking me. Next?
8:05.... You shouldn't be so quick to assume that no one cares enough. That really is not so. We all experience health issues, as do our families and friends. Everyone understands pain and suffering, most of us are appalled at the mistakes made in management that led to unnecessary exposure to Asbestos by employees, and frankly, it is perplexing why Mr. Neil continues as Water Dept. manager. The membership has been stonewalled on all of this, so many are not even aware. Of course it is popular these days to question the validity of news that is not "nice news".
The Blog has tried mightily to get this information out there, so many of us care a great deal about your situation. We can't undo what has taken place, and are watching to see how the EPA investigation shakes out. Hopefully there will be some provision for health issues that you and your fellow workers have to anticipate and worry over.
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