Every once in a while we have a comment that is factual and stated honestly. This is a comment that also states the authors opinion with out name calling and personal insults. How refreshing. The comment posted after this one was the usual insults in response. I will post that response directly below this one. The contrast says a lot in what we are dealing with more and more. The division among members continues to grow. With the make up of the Board, I expect that division to continue and increase.
Thank you to the "anonymous" comment that helps us all to have a better understanding of why we are where we are, and why it is what it is. I remain hopeful for meaningful change that is fair for all members.
What we also know is that Trustees have been seen canvasing J Place every year, and have their lists of contacts in the community who generally agree to hand over their proxies or vote for who the Board favors. The Board also knows where all of the fulltime owners live and can easily contact those folks to solicit their votes. It is not an accident that candidates they favor are elected predictably, as they are very organized and have been doing this for years.
It is a silent agreement that the J place folks insist that the Tree Policy continues unaltered, and the fulltimers are largely terrified of change, which jives nicely with J Place folk's drive to control all policy and dialogue. Thus the status-quo holds a grip on the community, and independent thinkers are not welcome on the Board.
Add to that the control of the weekly and biannual newsletters and their messages, and the phenomenal apathy that has developed over the years among part-time owners, and you have a recipe for something like Groundhog's Day - the continual flow of J place candidates elected every year.
There really is nothing organic about this, and there is no means for others in the community to develop a separate base of support to resist the group in control. The covenants do not forbid what goes on, though it is secretive and obsessive, so "it's just business" as the mafiasos say.
82 comments:
This is the comment I moved here from "Vote Count" This is the comment I made reference. I do not believe that it was made by Steve Cox, but don't really know, and it is not important who said it, but the content that matters.
. I see you know who has decided to go all anonymous now.
You left out an important fact. Year after year after year there is always a high percentage of J placers who donate their time to be on the board and do other duties for the community. Compare that to the, what I would call the "occasional people" who don't. They come and go with a few who's only interest is being blog personalities and not really caring about the community. Their only interest is to turn the HOA into what they want, ignoring that many bought here for what it is. It's always easy to complain and come up with excuses like the first comment than to own that fact.
Yes, I will agree that it is like Groundhog Day in a sense, but not your interpretation
What I do not understand is why some people do not accept the results of the elections at Surfside. They mistakenly claim the would have prevailed if the opposition had not campaigned so hard, or if those losers who neglect or refuse to vote had voted. If they had voted we would have prevailed because they, obviously, would have supported me. My position is right and just everyone should support it. Of course their are those lame, those J Placers are too organized and busy to give us a opportunity promote our position. Do you not see how lame and petty you’re argument is. You sound like a bunch of crybabies. I keep waiting for one of you say “it’s not fair”. Your defeatist attitude will never win the day. Personally, I hope you keep your attitude and continue to only whine on this blog about how unfair this HOA is. Heaven forbid you actually volunteer for a committee, attend a meeting, mount a serious campaign, or expend one ounce of real energy to achieve your goals.
Give me a break.
How can you say that first comment isn't insulting? Not only does it condemn J placers, something you just happen to agree with, but does the same towards full timers also. Here's a fact, there is a big difference between being "terrified" (an insult) of change and not wanting it. But of course that is ok to do, right? Same with the status-quo remark, another insult. And I see that the old mafia label has come back too. So while the first comment may not have said a particular name it was loaded with insults and quite dismissive towards anyone who doesn't agree with the author.
The author also conveniently ignores the fact that a couple years back a Trustee who also used the same J place, status-quo and even mafia insults did a large amount of canvassing, including sending out unsolicited emails to ALL members with his hand picked candidates choices and even with all that he was only able to get one person elected to fill a one year term. So apparently the majority who care enough about the community to vote didn't share his opinions. The same is true now as then.
Now to the essence of the second comment, which is pretty much undeniable. Over the years the majority of those that run for the board and volunteer for committees and such are from J. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. I agree also that it is easy to complain and point fingers to explain the results then it is to own the fact that the majority of members don't share your views.
And btw, there was no name mentioned in the comment the host found insulting, the only name thrown out there was from him, why is that? It is not a coincidence that the person he named shares his views and because of that fact is granted free will to say and attack who he wants. The same with another person who is allowed to wish for older members demise.
Lmao. Why the negativity from the winners? Total control not good enough? Sick,sick,sick.
BS. Your full of yourself.
First, with only 15% of the membership voting, we do not know what the majority of owners want in Surfside. That is the big factor you keep ignoring. Second, no one is "whining" or bitter, just stating the facts.
Those in control do not have everyone's best interest in mind by concentrating on micro-management of most owner's property. Concentrating on adversarial enforcement of useless restrictions leads to unnecessary legal spending and conflict. It does not build community. That is the reality that we are stuck with.
No whining, just facts.
Yes, what a great service the J Placers have done by being on the board and dominating committees. Legal law suits, law breaking, no permits, social functions that a few attend and everyone pays for. Killing trees, and writing complaints. They have put an ugly face on Surfside. We don't need or want them as volunteers. The less they do, the better we are. They are mostly old bags that lead their "yes dear" husbands around by the nose. Yes, J Placers, thank you for your self serving service. Now, GO AWAY.
I truly hope that this self serving diatribe will be the last from a person who so wholeheartedly endorses subterfuge, rules violations, and costing us thousands of dollars in legal fees. As to your election, the result was determined long before a vote was cast.
Be proud of your hypocrisy! And go away!
Why should we go away and let you all wallow in your self pity. It is much more fun to stick around and gloat in our victory. You could not drum up enough support to justify being at the annual setting. You accuse us of being the problem. Of making mistakes. Well all of our transgressions are well know, thanks in part to this blog and to Steve Cox in particular. We still get the vast majority of the votes. It must really suck to lose so miserably to mistake prone active volunteers. How low your message must resonate to be ignored when compared to this current flawed board.
Enjoy your gloating with the coming increase in dues.
What a strange attitude by 6:50, to glory in the total failure of management of the past year, the predatory Tree Policy's legal expenses having greatly increased as documented by the attorney who attended the meeting, and the total apathy of 90% of the membership.
For Mr. Cox, it was not for lack of a valid and important message - your HOA refuses to be honest and transparent, or serve members with equitable policies. So glory in your fixed elections and continued mediocrity. Hooray for you !
Gloat in the fact that you support an organization that operates illegally, unethically, and has no moral fiber. Be proud to support such a dysfunctional POS!
It all depends on where you live, you low life, scum bag, trailer trash, Rv person. They care nothing about you and me. As a protest, we should all tack a big blue tarp on our roof. See how they like that view? I agree with 10:19 and 4:29. Keep speaking up and expose to all what Surfside really is.
Having read this blog for some time now, I note how the level of discussion has fallen to new guttural lows, particularly in this section. Therefore until person(s) can discuss matters without visceral name calling and can interject reason into their discussions, or should I say accusations, each posting that falls to the level of name calling, lack of logic, or calls out any person individually will be deleted from my readings and I call on the blog host to do the same. In its present forum, nothing positive is accomplished. Grow up people, we all have problems, you need discussion, not the childish name calling you now employ. I will continue to work within "the system" to see if we can't solve some of these issues, I doubt I will see any of you there.
The problem is "the system", not those who vent their frustration on the blog. The system is a board that is controlled by J Place members. You need to take off your blinders and see that the problem is not what people say or the way they say it, but rather special interests of a few. As long as we have a board that is not fair and transparent, there will be no positive results. Your critical comment is being made against the wrong people. You need to first acknowledge we have problems, and then offer some solutions. Unless changes are made, discussion is nothing more than discussion.
The problem is not the system. The system works. There are those who post on this blog about the J Place members who apparently have some mind control powers that allows them to dupe other members into accepting serious moral and ethical shortcomings as acceptable. That is not the case. In this country you must prove that someone has broken a law before you can condemn them for it. If you bring an accusation against someone without proof you will not be taken seriously by thinking individuals. BTW, prof requires evidence, testimony by witnesses, and must be able to withstand arguments from the defense. It is impossible to prove anything on a blog, you can only make accusations on a blog. So make the system work for you. If you have proof of wrongdoing then show up at meeting and during member comment, state your case. If you are to timid to do that, hire a lawyer to speak fore you. If you are going to hire a lawyer, why not sue the board of trustees for their misconduct. That would shine a big light on all of their nefarious practices. You will never get any satisfaction just whining on this blog about how unfair things are and about how powerless we are. So instead of being pathetic losers, take charge of the situation.
The "system" is broken. It has been broken by a board and their supporters who are non transparent on the serious failings and legal issues happening now. The record and minutes show proof of a board that does not allow any review of the Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, covenants and operations policy. Lawyers cost money and the only ones who can is the board with members money. A Board with a majority of J Place owners will never represent the entire membership in an unbiased fair way. A working system would work for all the members, not the few they represent. You demean those who question anything about anything. The fact that you suggest a law suit, suggests that you recognize the unrest that exists. A system that works as it should, should not have law suits. Your comment about "just whining on this blog" clearly shows your mind set. And it certainly is not for the members. Your name calling of "pathetic losers" is exactly what you are with the "proof" of your comment. You fool no one but yourself.
When are you blog miscreants going to understand most of the membership enjoy the way things are, don't want change, and feel the BOT is looking out for their best interests. Most of the membership could care less about moving in any other direction as long as their dues stay low and they can just enjoy their places. Heck, most of them don't use computers nor even know what a blog is. Let us make the decisions about what is right for them.
9:15, well stated, thank you for pointing out what the others aren't willing to accept.
915 - "Let us make the decisions for them."
You do not speak for me, nor do you do my thinking for me.
The former comment would be chilling, if it wasn't so ludicrous when applied to a homeowners association. Get a grip!
It is what it is, and my kids will be stepping up to keep the status quo for future generations.
Your just blowing hot air. More and more members are not happy with Surfside. With nearly half of those who voted, voted for Steve Cox. This should be an alarm bell for you and your status quo pals. I hope your kids take after your wife. You are a poor role model.
Cox and his ill couldn't make a dent, nor will they. The membership won't trust anyone that spouts doom and gloom that's not legitimate. The Chinook Observer doesn't even care about SHOA and reporting any news about it. As far as most are concerned, Surfside is doing just fine, no one wants community involvement or mail in ballots like the couple other "no investment" candidates mentioned either.
You don't know what the hell your talking about. A hundred votes is more than a dent. It should be a warning to you and a few others. The Chinook Observer will report when there is something to report. When there are more law suits, penalties,criminal indictments and people going to jail, they will report it. Surfside is doing just fine? The only fine Surfside will have, is from the State, County and Federal regulators. If you bought here for an investment, you made a poor choice. It is a buyers market. Asking price is not a selling price. Surfside is the laughing stock of the peninsula. Thanks to people like you. The full time retired and the RV folks don't give a damn about an investment. They are here to stay and prefer to see low evaluations that equate to lower taxes. Your psychic ability to know what members think is questionable. You need to get a new line of work. There will be doom and gloom when the board has spent all our money and there is nothing left to do except go bankrupt. You can then kiss your investment good bye.
Live with it, we won, you lost.
The members lost and we won't live with it. We will fight and expose your bigoted status quo.
Cox and his ilk ? There was no campaign headquarters or canvassers as there was with the Board sanctioned 3 candidates. Steve has a few friends in the neighborhood, but there is no rebel group or opposition movement. Steve has spoken out against Board bullying, misleading information, secretive BOT actions, and the big cover-up.
Hard to believe any honest Surfside member would not appreciate a candidate speaking the truth, in the face of denials and secrecy. The support of Steve Cox represents owners who are informed and concerned that their HOA is so dysfunctional. Can dissatisfied owners build a strong enough base of support to dislodge the entrenched Status-quo masters ?
It's a tough challenge in a community of mostly part-time residents. Truth and justice SHOULD win out right ? It's a nice fantasy, and a worthy objective.
Your truth is skewed and your justice is warped. There has been no trial, yet you claim they are guilty. You mistakenly claim you want justice when all you really want is to have things your way. Just because you said it doesn’t make it true. Justice is not an agenda, it requires fairness, equity, and a lack of bias. Your clammer for justice is not rooted in fairness equity or a lack of bias, it is rooted in deception, hatred, and bias. Forget a fair trial, let’s just string them up. This is not the American way.
Karma is a b**** 7:24. Your are going to look very foolish.
Nice try, 724, on trying to flip the issues here.
You speak of everything this association does NOT give us, specifically the equality and fairness you so eloquently refer to. Justice is important. We don't get that, either,
How do you live with such blatant hypocrisy?
To 1:22:
I didn't buy for an investment. I bought because I want to live here, something I do full time, so we differ in our reasons for being here.
"Asking price is not a selling price", well no sh*t. Big newsflash there. But one problem for your statement. In my area people ARE getting their asking price, some without even listing the house. Sorry for you if your area is different. Care to share where exactly on the peninsula property values are skyrocketing as compared to here? If there is such a place I will lay odds they aren't surrounded by RV and vacant lots.
I wish my house went down in its evaluation along with my taxes, but it didn't, along with my neighbors. Your little rant is wrong and means nothing.
Continue to hold on to that hundred votes if it makes you feel better, I'm happy for you. And as far as a laughing stock, look in the mirror because I'm looking down at you laughing my a$$ off.
7:24 is in serious denial of the facts. That's how many members handle the truth - create an alternate fantasy world. The EPA Criminal Investigation is yet to be concluded. But a question we naturally ask is, what prompted a CRIMINAL investigation ? It seems certain it grew out of denials by Trustees that anything was wrong, along with the restrictions and extreme protocol for handling Asbestos being common knowledge among most adults.
Ignoring known restrictions and requirements for employees and employers in handling Asbestos was so stupid, it raised the question "why would these educated people ignore Federal requirements on the books for 50 years or more ?" Mr. Neal is still the manager, and nothing has changed. Surfside is making deals with North Beach, who hold Neal's contract with Surfside, and Surfside owners are still being stonewalled by the BOT.
You are being mislead and lied to by your HOA. That can't be okay in anyone's book, no matter how much you rant and rave.
Its status quo here...they've lied to each other for so many years it's now the truth...to them.
To the rest of us, it's a bad joke....stacked elections, selective enforcement and lies included.
I would ask our Blog host why he would allow a rant like 7/21 @ 5:29 to remain on the message board. That is a new low,
Free speach dumas, you will.never knock is completely out
Poor 4:02. Are you offended? Why don't you start your own blog? Last time I looked, I see the blog hosts name, not yours, on anything. The blog host should not allow your poor offended, righteous rant.
402 - you seem to think you have some sort of decision making role here.
You do not. You are a blogger, just like the rest of us. Stay off the blog host.
I thought the same reading 21-july 5:29 comment. Had to read a few times, I think they were intending to be sarcastic as the trailing verbiage speaks to the BOT not playing fair and the names bringing to light the discrimination to RVers.
Speak against the ruling junta, and loud mouth 402 wants you censored.
Typical, and a very good illustration of why this blog is so important - you will not control us!
No one is attempting to control anyone to my knowledge. We simply want to live peacefully with the covenants being enforced fairly and timely. I do not own property on J and I do cheerfully keep my trees pruned.
You demonstrate your lack of knowledge with your "cheerfully" comment. Those being discriminated against and forced to kill their trees in a "timely" manner are not as cheerful as you. Falling off a ladder or having to hire a tree butcher does not make one cheerful. You sound like miss peggy in, trim them now or fine them. You need to get your cheerful head out of the sand and see how the tree policy is dividing our community.
Maybe Happy Face will come over and trim my trees. That would make me cheerful.
Some of you folks are deplorable smart asses.
I am 4:02. I made a simple, polite comment about a prior comment. I based it on the blog host and his prior statements about personal attacks and basic civility. I had no idea it would provoke so many to hurl more vitriol on the blog. Just like our national stage there is a lot of hate out there. What is allowed now compared to several years ago is alarming. It's not in the least constructive or informative. Very sad. If you were reading this for a month or so prior to buying a home here you would probably pass. Who would want to live with such nasty self centered people?
Right 1:59. In the past several years we have seen the association sink to new lows with the illegal actions, building without permits and now a criminal investigation. The past two board elections only ensure a further decline in the reputation of surfside. To answer your question about who would want to live here with such nasty self centered people?, The answer is no one. It is only after they have purchased here that they see the real surfside. It's called buyer remorse. It is only going to get worse. Your again right in that it is very sad.
1:13pm...same old blah blah blah, killing trees, blah blah, head out of the sand, blah blah.
Trim your trees and shut up Ash wipe
Now, now Clancy, go back to your morning libations.
907 - sober up before you post, fool.
Hopefully 9:07 doesn't even live in surfside.
In the topic header the host said, "The division among members continues to grow" & "with the make up of the Board, I expect that division to continue and increase."
After reading the back and forth on this topic and elsewhere, to put the blame of any division on the Board solely is false. Actual useful information that use to be a staple on here has now become secondary to insults and other nasty rhetoric that permeates most social media sites, specially those where anonymity is allowed. Time to own up to that fact.
What happened to Deb Blagg and her coalition of RV members who were planning to take over Surfside with their brilliant, self serving changes to the hoa governance? Looks like another trouble maker bit the dust.
They had a facebook page to discuss RV stuff, and never had any intention of "changing the HOA to suit themselves." Anyone who gets to know this HOA realizes the BOT is locked in an obsessive Tree topping frenzy that has systematically destroyed the appearance of the community, and a pact between J Place owners and permanent residents promises to avoid any policy changes proposed by any other members.
Clearly the only "troublemakers" are the HOA Board themselves, and the trouble they bring is an HOA with blinders on, that refuses to be transparent and honest. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent in the last year, on legal counsel and huge fines for failed permitting and mismanagement at the Water Dept. After more than a year of silence, we still have heard no admissions of mistakes, explanations of what occurred, or what will be done to rectify the situation.
The BOT has plenty of your money to spend however they wish, with no real accounting for it. They say we're in good financial shape, but want to raise assessments. how can both be the case ?
B.S. on you 9:13
9:13 - I recognize the HOA's b.s., so the b.s. is on you 9:20. Thanks for your in-depth analysis.
blah, blah, blah, blah --- the same old rant from those who want to bring Surfside down --- over and over an over and over again. thanks for your in depth lies and misrepresentations as you continue to try to stir up trouble.
+Same old rant over and over because the same old crap continues over and over from the elitist J Placers and the old bags on the tree committee. Now those same old bags have taken over the community relations committee with their J Place propaganda. Time to get rid of this abortion called surfside. If this was put to a vote of the members, this hell hole would be gone. Stir up trouble? You don't know what trouble is. The real trouble was made by Williams and his cohorts. It ain't over till the fat lady sings and that is not far away.
The only lies and misrepresentations are coming from people on the board. Get a grip!
Can't be soon enough for me.
Keep up the insidious work bloggers. Create distrust and hate as often as possible. Create divisiveness in a community that could benefit well from a cooperative environment and some serious unity. Put your efforts toward breaking up or destroying the community instead of working towards improvements and a friendly community. Feel the thrill each time you stir the pot in hopes to achieve more dissention and hate. Recognize that it is your life's enjoyment to stir up trouble.
If you cannot figure out that it is the board that is creating divisiveness and hate, you're either not watching close enough, or you're a shill. Which is it?
Not a shill and have been watching closely and researching HOA issues since 2005. Grin and wear it 3:03. You are a trouble maker.
No, I am a member of an organization that operates in an illegal and totally unethical manner. Been here longer than you, and don't like it.
Anybody who opposes is a troublemaker, right? Better that than a shill. At least I can look at myself in the mirror.
Spending a lot of time looking in a mirror is a highly rated activity for ruthless, narcissist, troublemakers. The rest of us rarely study ourselves in a mirror because we are busy doing volunteer work, good deeds and minding our own business and responsibilities. Try it 10:12. It may reduce your needs to look in the mirror trying to find a decent person.
Swear to god i feel like im still in grade school.smh
The division and hate created by the trouble makers on this blog continues without an end in sight. We are not going to give up on challenging those who want to change the HOA to fit their selfish personal goals or to end the HOA's existence. Loud mouthed, trouble making members of the minority do not get a pass. Ignoring their antics in the past seemed to encourage the craziness.
The division and hate is the creation of a board and a few members who only want things their way.If you want to call those who seek change so that the HOA is fair and transparent, "trouble makers", then so be it. A better term is "change makers", not your repeated over and over "trouble makers".
Dear 11:34,
Your opinion is not factual and your are part of a minority of trouble makers. Face it and deal with it.
1205 - your opinion, not fact. I will be one of your 'troublemakers' until the organization I am forced to belong to operates in an honest, open, communicative fashion. That model would probably scare the hell out of you.
You can continue shilling now...
You are not forced to belong to "this organization". Sell the property that includes covenants that you do not like or respect. Move on and take your trouble making personality with you.
Encouraging ethical, transparent communications within this association has been on my agenda for many years. I actually volunteered my time, energy and brains to it until the enjoyment of my retirement years exceeded my zeal to improve the association. I didn't cause trouble or pitch a fit to get my way. I worked to encourage improvements and achieved a few. I learned to ferret out information that I needed without bashing other members in the process.
What scares the hell out of me is the self serving trouble makers who leave a trail of expenses, distrust and hate in their quest to have it their way with no regard for others in the association. Take a hint from Patrick, sell out and move on.
Many of us have made a purchasing error in our lives. Most often it is a vehicle. You can't make a truck perform like it is a sports car. Sometimes you must sell what you have to buy something that is more suitable to your wants and needs. Do you get it trouble makers? If you live/work in Lithuania, you have to live and work by their rules not the rules of the United States.
Sorry, rather fight than switch. That's the only line you clowns have, isn't it? Don't like it, leave! Imbecilic and juvenile, but expected.
We do not have to follow the rules of an organization that does not follow their own.
Pretty soon the idea is going to be flown to withhold dues until the board starts operating in a legal fashion. How you like that 1?
We understand all too clearly that you would rather fight than switch. Don't blame the association for the fact that you have a personality disorder. You made a mistake in buying here. Instead of owning up to your mistake and taking corrective action, you whine, bitch and threaten on the blog. That is why you seriously should own up to being a trouble maker. Your unhappy and you are going to try your best to make everyone else unhappy. Your pathetic "fight" on this blog is laughable.
I like that 2:29. The same should be about tree killing. If everyone would refuse to kill their trees, that practice would soon go away. As a First Lady once said..."just say no".The village idiot like to keep saying "trouble maker". Trouble maker for who? For those who think they have the right to tell others what to do. The only personality disorder I see on here is 4:01. Do they not see what a fool they are? What is laughable is the poor fool 4:01. Pathetic.
Obstinate, reactive proposed actions like withholding dues and/or assessment payments simply point out that there are a few members who would shot themselves in the foot in order to feel that they are "fighting" for their self serving causes. What we do not need in Surfside is members who are so hell bent to achieve their self serving wishes that they see tantrums and refusing to carry out their legal responsibilities as some form of problem solving. Give us all a break and go suck your thumbs to ease your childish, oppositional whims.
What we do not need in surfside are creeps like you peddling your same old BS. Give us a break and save it for the board room.
Keep shilling, 742. It's the only thing you know. You'll be hearing about until change is effected.
Don't like that? YOU LEAVE!
No, we don't have to read the blog or listen to the litany of the trouble makers. It has been a matter of courtesy and believing in free speech to tolerate the ranting this long. I'm done with this discussion.
I abide by the covenants, don't stir up trouble and like my home. Why would I leave when it is so easy to simply tune out the trouble makers. Over and out.
Exactly 9:30. Like you I love it here and ain't going nowhere. Just ignore our resident little internet Gnome. He loves to be Mr. Macho as long as he remains anonymous.
Funny how you bang on people for remaining anonymous, then don't put your own names out here.
Hypocrisy, they name is Surfside!
Thy name is also 7:52. If shoa such a neat place to live n your ilk has the power? Why anonymous? I was already punished for speaking up by my name. Whats your excuse? Coward? Or you a troll?
9:18 gets the last comment. When the conversation reverts to attacking each other and the blog host, it serves no purpose in a meaningful discussion of the issues. My thanks to those who stick to the subject matter and enlighten the rest of us. I keep trying. What was that saying about insanity? Seems to fit a lot of us, especially me.
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