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Thursday, October 18, 2018
Board Meeting Agenda
Saturday, October 20, 2018.....Water Rates?
What are they going to do? Start charging for water so they can pay the legal fees and fines. They need a defense fund. They can call it the CYA fund. Click on the agenda for a larger read....
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
It wouldn't surprise me. Let's wait and see what shakes out. Maybe it's just to adjust the threshold of 10,000 units before they fine anyone. Or maybe not? From what I've heard there seems to be plenty of water so any charge is hogwash unless there is someone that is just totally ignorant and wasteful with a good leak and knows and does nothing about it.
you know what? Lets get rid of our dues as we know them. Crank up the water rates with monthly charges, charge for access to the dump, have a small service fee for the office staff (1 max would be needed). The other buildings and extra property could be sold or volunteers could keep the maintenance up at the little uses picnic sites. Travis would still have to cover us, that's what we pay property taxes for.
The members of Surfside own the Waterworks, and aren't going to allow the Board to charge for water. The trouble the community faces with the EPA is entirely the creation of the BOT and any fines incurred are strictly the result of their poor management of the Water Dept.
It is unclear why there has not been any real oversight of Water Dept. procedures, or where North Beach figures into this. It seems that the Board has seen this as only a fringe matter that was somehow monitoring itself, or that there was an assumption that North Beach was overseeing procedures at the Water Dept..
Let's face it, this has not gone on in secrecy. Bill Neal has been available for questions and input at many Board meetings. An unfortunate result of electing volunteers is that the decisions they make or fail to make fall on the membership.
It is unlikely that any one person will be found at fault in the asbestos matter, and trustees are protected from being found personally at fault for ANY decisions the BOT makes. Any fines incurred as a result of these blunders are certainly bound to be paid for out of the Surfside membership's operating funds.
We should resist any special assessment or desperate efforts to create new sources of revenue, with the understanding that we cannot trust the HOA Board to act responsibly, nor keep their word to act only in the community's best interest.
They have focused their efforts on RV lots and shed eaves, and measuring inches of growth on owner trees. No doubt a lot of money was pissed away in the last year on legal counsel, without observing required Board approval of all community expenses. The president's free access to legal counsel paid for with community funds without BOT approval, needs to be stopped !
Wrong 9:40 Individual board members are responsible for illegal actions. That is why they have hired their own personal attorneys. That is what the criminal investigation is about, not the association.
Hope it costs them as much for their personal lawyers as they have cost the members with their unscrupulous spending! These board members deserve every sleepless night they will have. Hope ole Kirby is included in the investigation. He will get his eventually.
9:40 sez ... I assume you are correct 10:31. But this provision is a reminder that not only does the BOT have to monitor what their employees are doing, but the members need to monitor what the BOT is or is not doing.
My main point is that North Beach Water and the Surfside BOT have a role in the management of the Water Dept. and it's employees, and Mr. Flood has been centrally involved since the pipe replacement began. Of course Mr. Neal has responsibility to prevent harm coming to his employees, and carefully monitoring water quality.
The EPA has their own criterion as to the full range of responsibilities Bill has, in terms of safe handling of the material, and most critically, disposal. As the material is only a hazard when cut or broken, and it's only hazardous to breath the asbestos fibers, the responsibility for wearing breathing protection may have been left to the employees when out in the field.
The crime seems to be primarily the absence of oversight and improper disposal. If employees used some care in protecting themselves, they probably haven't had enough exposure to be concerned about. The public have known about the dangers of asbestos for 50 years or more, so employees knew what they were dealing with and surely took some care in protecting themselves.
It is difficult to pinpoint who in particular has committed a crime, the main issue being the improper disposal.
I have no difficulty in identifying Flood, Williams, Neal and Gil as the particular ones with the responsibility for safe handling and disposal of the pipe. The employees are the victims who do what they are told. In a years time we spend thousands of dollars and man hours in monthly safety meetings that are attended by both north beach and surfside. When someone fails in their responsibilities, you fire or replace them. This should apply to the four above. That's the boards responsibility. For them to do less is a board failure, and they should be replaced or removed. If the members fail to hold the board accountable, then the members have failed and the association should be dissolved. We can not continue to throw good money after bad.
It did happen 9:47, after they got caught. Not before. How about north beach, they also have employees that work with ac pipe. They also cut and repair breaks. The EPA and L&I are going to be looking at them also. The common thread is Mr. Neal. Not only has he put surfside in a legal liability position, but north beach also. I am sure we will see the departure of Neal sooner rather than later. No one is going to want to be associated with him. Surfside is going to want north beach to accept responsibility and pay the fines.
12:00 .. It's easy to say these things, much more difficult to accomplish. Surfside has no capability to rally the majority of the membership to any cause, no matter how justified or urgent. The primary goal of the Tech Comm. was to try and remedy that. Gary Williams insisted the Comm. had to be dissolved, and the BOT obliged.
In spite of Gary William's outrageously poor performance, he was re-elected by the Board as their/our president. The Board will not remove any Trustees, and the dissolution of the HOA will not happen.
We have a great deal of property owned in common by the membership including the Waterworks, which require management, and would be very complicated to sell off. We need someone in the Water Dept. management role, and it may not be easy finding a well qualified replacement for Mr. Neal.
Not easy to find a replacement is not an acceptable excuse for continuing a contract with Neal and North Beach. A deal with the devil has never proven to be a good deal.
There are more than one management company that contract out to run small water districts. Most actually know what they are doing.might cost more in short term, but obviously not in long term. Shoa didn’t want that because would not be able to put in their uneducated two cents.all about power n ego.
8:58 PM your comment about the Board not be willing to remove any Board members shows your lack of knowledge of how our Board works. The Board can remove someone from the Executive Committee but that is it. The members can remove some or all of the Board members at the Annual Meeting only. Might be nice to know that.
18 comments:
It wouldn't surprise me. Let's wait and see what shakes out. Maybe it's just to adjust the threshold of 10,000 units before they fine anyone. Or maybe not? From what I've heard there seems to be plenty of water so any charge is hogwash unless there is someone that is just totally ignorant and wasteful with a good leak and knows and does nothing about it.
you know what? Lets get rid of our dues as we know them. Crank up the water rates with monthly charges, charge for access to the dump, have a small service fee for the office staff (1 max would be needed). The other buildings and extra property could be sold or volunteers could keep the maintenance up at the little uses picnic sites. Travis would still have to cover us, that's what we pay property taxes for.
The members of Surfside own the Waterworks, and aren't going to allow the Board to charge for water. The trouble the community faces with the EPA is entirely the creation of the BOT and any fines incurred are strictly the result of their poor management of the Water Dept.
It is unclear why there has not been any real oversight of Water Dept. procedures, or where North Beach figures into this. It seems that the Board has seen this as only a fringe matter that was somehow monitoring itself, or that there was an assumption that North Beach was overseeing procedures at the Water Dept..
Let's face it, this has not gone on in secrecy. Bill Neal has been available for questions and input at many Board meetings. An unfortunate result of electing volunteers is that the decisions they make or fail to make fall on the membership.
It is unlikely that any one person will be found at fault in the asbestos matter, and trustees are protected from being found personally at fault for ANY decisions the BOT makes. Any fines incurred as a result of these blunders are certainly bound to be paid for out of the Surfside membership's operating funds.
We should resist any special assessment or desperate efforts to create new sources of revenue, with the understanding that we cannot trust the HOA Board to act responsibly, nor keep their word to act only in the community's best interest.
They have focused their efforts on RV lots and shed eaves, and measuring inches of growth on owner trees. No doubt a lot of money was pissed away in the last year on legal counsel, without observing required Board approval of all community expenses. The president's free access to legal counsel paid for with community funds without BOT approval, needs to be stopped !
Unfortunately, the members will feel this cost. They are the representatives of the membership, so yes you will pay
The bod cannot be protected from liability if they knowingly broke the law. Or knowingly stood by when it was happening.
Wrong 9:40
Individual board members are responsible for illegal actions. That is why they have hired their own personal attorneys. That is what the criminal investigation is about, not the association.
Hope it costs them as much for their personal lawyers as they have cost the members with their unscrupulous spending! These board members deserve every sleepless night they will have. Hope ole Kirby is included in the investigation. He will get his eventually.
me thinks no one is going to jail, or if they do, EVERYONE who has ever served on the BOT will have to share time there.
9:40 sez ... I assume you are correct 10:31. But this provision is a reminder that not only does the BOT have to monitor what their employees are doing, but the members need to monitor what the BOT is or is not doing.
My main point is that North Beach Water and the Surfside BOT have a role in the management of the Water Dept. and it's employees, and Mr. Flood has been centrally involved since the pipe replacement began. Of course Mr. Neal has responsibility to prevent harm coming to his employees, and carefully monitoring water quality.
The EPA has their own criterion as to the full range of responsibilities Bill has, in terms of safe handling of the material, and most critically, disposal. As the material is only a hazard when cut or broken, and it's only hazardous to breath the asbestos fibers, the responsibility for wearing breathing protection may have been left to the employees when out in the field.
The crime seems to be primarily the absence of oversight and improper disposal. If employees used some care in protecting themselves, they probably haven't had enough exposure to be concerned about. The public have known about the dangers of asbestos for 50 years or more, so employees knew what they were dealing with and surely took some care in protecting themselves.
It is difficult to pinpoint who in particular has committed a crime, the main issue being the improper disposal.
I would assume you would have to be trained and certified to deal with any asbestos products. This never happened.
I have no difficulty in identifying Flood, Williams, Neal and Gil as the particular ones with the responsibility for safe handling and disposal of the pipe. The employees are the victims who do what they are told. In a years time we spend thousands of dollars and man hours in monthly safety meetings that are attended by both north beach and surfside. When someone fails in their responsibilities, you fire or replace them. This should apply to the four above. That's the boards responsibility. For them to do less is a board failure, and they should be replaced or removed. If the members fail to hold the board accountable, then the members have failed and the association should be dissolved. We can not continue to throw good money after bad.
It did happen 9:47, after they got caught. Not before. How about north beach, they also have employees that work with ac pipe. They also cut and repair breaks. The EPA and L&I are going to be looking at them also. The common thread is Mr. Neal. Not only has he put surfside in a legal liability position, but north beach also. I am sure we will see the departure of Neal sooner rather than later. No one is going to want to be associated with him. Surfside is going to want north beach to accept responsibility and pay the fines.
Didn't attend this time. Got any ideas about what happened in the meeting today?
Sure like to be fly on wall of closed door meeting.
12:00 .. It's easy to say these things, much more difficult to accomplish. Surfside has no capability to rally the majority of the membership to any cause, no matter how justified or urgent. The primary goal of the Tech Comm. was to try and remedy that. Gary Williams insisted the Comm. had to be dissolved, and the BOT obliged.
In spite of Gary William's outrageously poor performance, he was re-elected by the Board as their/our president. The Board will not remove any Trustees, and the dissolution of the HOA will not happen.
We have a great deal of property owned in common by the membership including the Waterworks, which require management, and would be very complicated to sell off. We need someone in the Water Dept. management role, and it may not be easy finding a well qualified replacement for Mr. Neal.
Not easy to find a replacement is not an acceptable excuse for continuing a contract with Neal and North Beach. A deal with the devil has never proven to be a good deal.
There are more than one management company that contract out to run small water districts. Most actually know what they are doing.might cost more in short term, but obviously not in long term. Shoa didn’t want that because would not be able to put in their uneducated two cents.all about power n ego.
8:58 PM your comment about the Board not be willing to remove any Board members shows your lack of knowledge of how our Board works. The Board can remove someone from the Executive Committee but that is it. The members can remove some or all of the Board members at the Annual Meeting only. Might be nice to know that.
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