From community pride to shame...
Most people like to take pride in the community where they live., especially when they made that choice to live there. This is what makes our community different from many. People are here by choice.
It should be disturbing to all when we hear of people moving because they don't like it here and you hear.."I am tired of the BS". If you are a full time resident, it is not easy to pick up and make a move. Many people have moved here with the thought that this would be their retirement home, and the last place they would leave. These people have more of a vested interest in their community. They like to think that they made the right decision in being here. They have moved here for more than just being near the ocean. They have moved here for a way of life.
Part time and RV members are not as invested as the full time. Most of them are here for the recreational opportunities. This does not mean that they should be treated with any less respect than full time members. In fact they should be appreciated for paying the same dues and assessments, but use less of the services. This helps provide a more affordable community for the full time users.
Over the past few years, the ocean beach way of life has changed. The live and let live philosophy has changed with a few that want to be more restrictive, demanding and control others way of life. Harassment rather then tolerance, has become the new normal. There are always a few that do need more concentrated enforcement, but that is no reason to be more forceful on the whole community. We need to be working more on improving a community than tearing it apart.
Go outside our community and ask the others what they think of Surfside? Most will say, Oh, you live there? They have a lot of problems and sure glad I don't live there. A few have created an image of Surfside that is not fair to the members. Most of the members are the same nice people that have always been here. What has changed are those selfish few who want to control everyone else.
These same people will blame everyone but themselves. It is the fault of the blog. It is the fault of those who won't follow the covenants. It is the fault of the RV members. It is the fault of the Board for not enforcing the covenants.
We need to return to our community being the result of what the members want. For why they moved here or bought here in the first place. We like a beach way of life and if your not willing to accept that, your living in the wrong place. What do you think? Am I seeing things wrong?
63 comments:
Give it a rest George, Surfside is not as bad as you say it is. Lots of new homes being built. Home values are going up. People come and people go in every community for a variety of reasons. Surfside’s reputation is not as bad as you claim. I will agree there are people who should not live in a homeowner’s association. The extra rules and close quarters are not their cup of tea. Homeowner’s associations are more suited to people who like structure and want to be certain their neighbors activities will not adversely affect their property value or their quality of life through covenants. Homeowners associations are not a good fit for people who don’t like rules or working with other people for a common good and hate covenants. I like it Surfside and I like the covenants and I am sure many of my neighbors and friends do to. Evidence, they keep voting for the same trustees. We live in a society that adds and changes rules all the time. Remember when people could smoke right next to you in a restaurant. Remember when you could buy unpasteurized milk from the local dairy. Change is inevitable and not always to your liking. In a democracy, the majority wins. I am happy smokers have been banned from restaurants but I sure do miss the local dairy.
I support a group of members getting together to discuss community issues and propose ideas for the rest of the community to consider. I did not support the arrogant annual meeting takeover attempted by former member Blagg and company. That was not working for the community. That was telling the community “I know what is best for you and you will like it even if you don’t”. Let’s not have any more of that bad behavior. So, if you are going to form some sort of community improvement group, please be professional in you activities.
Thank you for your comment 4:31. Like you one of the main reasons we moved here was for the covenants not in spite of them like others. I find it interesting the comment made above about full time residents. I am one of those. I don't have a house elsewhere. I love it here, that's why I chose to live here. Many of my neighbors feel the same.
I'm sure I will be attacked for saying this, but it is an undeniable fact that the majority of those most vocal against the HOA have been part timers. I'm not saying all and I'm not saying all part timers do, but look at the names.
It isn't harassment to want people to follow covenants, that's how a HOA works. Why should those who do follow them be required to "tolerate" those who do not? If you want to talk tolerance, let's do. Many full timers tolerate those that come done here for a few days to use this area as their playground. We accept that as part of living here. I'm willing to bet that those vocal part timers wouldn't be so tolerant if the same happened back at the primary residence.
4:31 anonymous I hardly think the majority likes this compliance enforcement atmosphere! Someone driving around taking photos at night and measuring your trees. We have lived in two seperate HOA in one of the largest cities in this state and never once had to worry about someone spying on our home! One of the reasons we had no concerns about buying into this HOA was because we knew rules and covenants were for a good reason, but when you feel you are being singled out all comfort goes out the door!
I am upset that people have actually moved away because of the HOA. At the meeting on the 18th I happened to sit by newcomers and they were very concerned and questioned the decision about buying here!
It’s very weird to me that in 2013 there were only 27 tree complaints at the end of November and now at the end of December 2019 there were 222 cases and 114 still open. Am I missing something, were new more stricter covenants passed concerning trees?
Why make it so difficult for members to live and co-exist?
Except for Blagg and Johansen please provide additional data that members have moved because of the HOA.
I agree with the first two commenters.
The reason for the increased complaints is they started enforcing the covenants. I'm also okay with that.
It is good to see this blog start sharing differing voices again instead of deleting comments that don't agree with some opinions.
That said, @Joanne's experience with the lighting complaint and the lack of communication/explanation is not acceptable.
I agree there is room for improvement in the professionalism of the association. I do not agree with the demonization of the board as a whole or trustees as individuals. When changes to existing covenants or the creation of new covenants are contemplated the board should take its time. Make certain everyone is informed of the process and the proposed language. In Olympia, it takes three or four years to get a bill passed into law. They should slow down and consider all of the possible ramifications of the new or amended covenant and get comments from as many members who want to comment. The board should create convenient pathways for members to communicate ideas, requests, and questions to the board. At the same time, they should not be bullied by members making demands, accusations, or engaging in character assassination. Our State and Federal leaders as well as the media outlets are not providing very good roll models for professional and civil behavior when working with those who have differing opinions. Nevertheless, having a functioning homeowner’s association is a matter the board and all members have a responsibility to facilitate.
These people don't need roll models!!! They ran and got elected. Do the f'ing job open and transparently and follow all laws, especially getting permits from county, state, or federal entities. They're damn adults running our damn hoa.
Blog host is stirring the pot writing part time and RV Members are not as invested as full time Members
6:13 he’s not storing the pot nearly like 5:27 who must “tolerate” the part timers who come here to have fun! Better hope they don’t join together to let you know how they feel! They outnumber you probably at least 2 to 1 and by the way pay the same dues and assessments as you plus property taxes. I’d suggest if you wanted to live in such a HOA go to a gated community and leave us riff raff alone!
By the way it's role models. They're not rolling down the road lol.
I'm glad Scott is gone. He's not on here ridiculing, demeaning, and calling people terrible names anymore.
And so the working together as adults begins. Please do not ridicule and belittle. It is unproductive. The building permit issue is old business. The engineer who failed in their duty paid all of the fines. Get over it. People, even professionals make mistakes. Are you out for blood or trying to improve your community? If all you want is blood, get a gun you degenerate. It you want to improve your community, roll (or is it role, Ms. Grammar) up your sleeves and volunteer for something.
12:36, you seem to be a little confused. It is not the board that is bullied, it is the members, by the board and it's corrupt cohorts. Poor board babies. Role models? Hell, they can't even follow their own rules and regulations. They are a disgrace to themselves and our HOA.
@7:36
Is that all you got out of 12:36's post?
I'd assume most would agree with what was written yet instead of building and working together on the part that most may agree, you want to focus and divide by picking on the exception you don't agree with.
This is what needs to change.
I got nothing more out of it than more blah, blah blah. You can not deal with these people with any kind of reasonable discussion. Get your head out of the sand and see the reality for what it really is. Bad people doing bad things, They need to be removed or end this so called homeowners association. It is a special interests association. Save your high road crap for someone else. We don't buy it here. You sound like some kind of board candidate. Well, you don't have my vote.
12:36. The board needs to get your message to slow down! Thank good people got involved and the hearing meeting was pushed forward to January 18th. It was on the agenda for hearing in November and vote at the December 7th meeting. This with no input from members and certainly no atmosphere of wanting any! Slow down I guess! So much has been changed behind the scenes it scary! $200 transfer fee, compliance vs complaint, compliance officer ect. Seems odd they can do a survey about the officer position, but thought just the notices were sufficient about the covenant!
@9:36
Good luck with your approach and opposition.
You combat a bully by fighting back. It's time to fight back. We need to bully the board back and their volunteer clones. Mr. head in the sand thinks we need to be nice. Enough of that BS. Maybe they will move away.
@11:00
See you here next year still whining.
Maybe YOU should move.
11:00 AM is a real hawk. Ready the war machines and call up the troops. The good news is, he has no war machines and he has no troops. He is a noise in the wind, an ineffectual distraction that nobody takes seriously. Now how about that small group of members who want to improve the community, what is your fist step?
7:01.... The Permit issue, while old business, is not yet resolved. The HOA drug their feet for about a year and a half, and the County was through waiting patiently. At that point, a fine of 41000/day was set to begin Oct 1st, had not Larry Raymer and Bill Neal appealed to the County for a 30 day delay.
The County held the Hearing and made a judgement that the permitting would be allowed. But they had not yet announced what the cost of the Mitigation land purchase would be. It is pretty certain that the HOA Board has been notified by now, as to the price per acre, which had the potential to be $90,000. We were classified as a schedule 2, making our settlement far less expensive.
The membership deserves to know exactly what the final cost was determined to be, and along with that, how much in member funds were spent over more than a year and a half of legal representation. Will the BOT finally give a full accounting of HOA costs, all of which were the result of trustee actions taken without full Board approval ?
When Trustees follow proper procedure, such issues do not come up, so stop all of the whining about Board-bashing. The conclusion of this matter takes place when the entire issue is explained to the membership, and the full cost of this management failure has been outlined. There are plenty of members who want to know the facts, and many who are willing to accept the HOA's apology for the procedural failures that the members have had to pay a great deal for.
Yes, mistakes happen. Honorable Trustees admit to mistakes of this magnitude, explain what happened, and offer assurances that they will take greater care to respect the County, State and Federal laws and regulations that the HOA must abide by.
11:24 sez - The fine was $1000/day. Wrong key stroke.
Sorry, dont buy it. There is no reason to cover up mistakes, or keep details from those you represent. The fact that they have hired personal lawyers and using those paid by us as an excuse to stay mute, says it all.
Everyone knows it's ultimately the asset owner's responsibility to get the necessary, applicable, and required permits!!!
Get over it. They f'd up big time!! I quaramtee we ultimately paid the $7,500 fine!!!
End The Junta!!!
End The Junta!!!
The path to success is to take massive, determine actions.
Steve, the mitigation plan was not a result of a failure to apply for a permit. The mitigation plan was a result of building in a wetland buffer. If the engineer had applied for a permit prior to construction of the carbon treatment plant the location would still have been in a wetland buffer and mitigation would be required. Once the fines for not obtaining a building permit were paid (by the engineer), Surfside was back to square one. Surfside would have been required to mitigate the building even if a permit had been applied for in advance of the work. The mitigation cost could not have been avoided.
Board bashing is not productive. It does not unite the community and it does not encourage members to volunteer. Volunteering is a thankless job at best. Who needs it if all you get is grief from self righteous members with an ax to grind.
Stop trying to put this on the engineer! I an an engineer.
Building permits are what it says by the words. It is a permit to build, not to study or design. I as an engineer don't go to the county to get a building permit to do engineering, duh.
The engineer would know it's in a wetland and would know building permits are needed. The contractor failed and furthermore the board failed by not writing proper contract language requiring the contractor to obtain any and all necessary external regulatory entity permits.
STOP THE LIES AND MANIPULATION NOW!!!!!
STOP THE BS. Your an engineer of what? You drive a train? The board and their stooges screwed up, and your trying to make excuses and cover it up. Clancy was the take charge person in all of this. Guess who paid for all of this?
1:25....Are you a Trustee ? We do not know exactly what happened, because the BOT has not outlined what happened. That is exactly what I have made reference to. The Board is responsible for oversight of ALL community projects. Building proceeded even though the HOA knew that it was being done in a Wetland and without a building permit.
I'm not sure how you/they got the Engineering Firm to pay the fines, as the HOA proceeded with the construction, not the Engineering Firm. The BOT was fully aware of the improprieties, yet proceeded anyway. Instead of high-fives all around, the BOT should be taking note of how very generous the County has been to agree to the deal they did. I suspect that getting the South Bend attorney involved gave Surfside an edge. We can only speculate because the Board does not speak candidly about their screw-ups.
There is nothing in my previous statement that can be construed to be "Board-bashing", but to say proper procedures were not followed - a fact. I also stated that the Board has not outlined why this happened for the membership's benefit - also a fact.
The Board's reputation needs to be built on their performance, and willingness to keep the membership informed of legal entanglements the HOA encounters, and legal costs incurred in resolving these issues. It isn't reliant on who is to blame, it is State Law. Fines, mitigation costs, and legal expenses, are ALL matters of member concern/interest, as it is ALL paid for with member funds.
It has not been revealed by the BOT that the Warehouse was not built to the designed specifications due to a single Trustee's decision to save on gravel costs, and build it 8 1/2" lower, resulting in it flooding in the first Winter it was in use. That resulted in an even greater expense of digging a ditch around the structure to create a drainfield.
Has it been revealed by the BOT that had the enclosing building been built to specifications, it would have been impossible to service the carbon columns ? Has it been discussed that the base of the CFT plant is not made of cement, and could float enough to tip over if the area was flooded ? My information indicates that is a factor to consider in proceeding with the final enclosing structure.
The future of the HOA depends on proper oversight and research in projects of this complexity, and preventing individual Trustees from making independent decisions without proper approvals or permits. Such actions cost the entire community for their poor judgement.
As I said, we need to know what the final cost is, including legal counsel.
Remember 1:25 and others when Martin brought up this issue during the July 2019 Annual Meeting. Also remember near the end of the meeting when Gary asked if there were any items from the members. Remember when I confronted the board on this issue. I looked right at Mr. Neal and proceeded to ask him how much money had been spent on fines for building without permits in 2018 and 2019. Mr. Neal said nothing. I then turned to the members and starting telling them the details of the issue. Remember when Gary rushed me and ripped the microphone away from my hand. I didn't cause a commotion. I left shortly after Gary ripped the microphone from my hand.
A path to change: First, each person who contributes to this blog should volunteer for a committee. This would add a huge number of voices at the committee level. I mean, you don't run for PTA president without volunteering for something, right?
Change does not happen with noise and signs - although that is nice.
At what level is it possible to engage this process? Committees.
By sheer numbers it would change the tenor of the HOA.
Oh, and please clean up your language. When was the last time you changed anybody's mind by insulting them?
Just a hot tip from an old subversive.
That’s a great starting point for sure 8:09!
Hell 8:09, I am sure half, including you, are on a committee or the board. They contribute more to the blog than anyone else. You make no sense at all.
We need Clancy on the tree committee. He has a lot of experience in these kinds of things.
8:09 says:
gratified somebody is paying attention.
But I think there are a lot more contributors to this blog than the total number of volunteers in the HOA. I believe there are about 200 owners who read this blog. That's a lotta juice.
Excuse me there 6:41, I believe you have either misread or didn't understand my comment. I am not storing(sic) the pot. The statement was made that harassment not tolerance had become the norm which I feel is not true. You took my response out of context. Yes, as I said I don't feel people who follow the rules should be forced to tolerate those who do. The part you fixated on was in response to the statement about full timers treating RV and part time members with respect.
Before I was a full time resident I was a part timer. I have neighbors who are RV'ers and some who use to be before they decided to build. We all get along and treat others with respect so I don't need your relocation advice.
I'm willing to write this off as as just a misunderstanding so please leave it at that.
The board has explained what happened. They explained it at several board meeting and it was discussed last July at the annual meeting. Please stop all of the hate and discontent.
That is b.s.. The subject was avoided throughout the meeting, and when brought up at the very end, the discussion was cut short and the meeting adjourned. You want o dismiss all of this, and ignore the continual cover-up of policy that takes inappropriate measures and keeps the secret from the members. Unless answers are insisted on by the membership, this will continue to be BOT Policy. They do what they want and keep it quiet. That's a violation of the most basic tenant of HOA law.
Your right 10:07. I was at that annual meeting and it was exactly as you described. It was a shameful performance by the board, and Gary Williams in particular. The association mouth piece gave false information also. How much longer are the members going to allow this kind of stuff to happen? We need to remove these jerks from the board. Let's do it at the July annual meeting. It is time for a revolution.
Why didn't any of you others in attendance at the meeting ask a question? I was there. Nothing prevented any of you from asking more questions. Meek as lambs, keyboard warriors...
Will be same story this July. Big talk leading up and no action.
Sigh...
Blog host back to selective editing.
Comment above reckons over 200 members read the blog. I say likely only about 15-20 members account for over half the comments and that gets deleted even though it is no personal attack or comment against the blog. Many other comments with names, personal attacks are left in contrary to Blog rules but no comments regarding readership breadth?
Why so sensitive?
Status quo, bad mouths membership n downplays this blog. Nothing else to offer. Bot trolls.
Not sensitive, Mostly, just don't like you. Why are you so obsessed with the blog numbers? You pay more attention to the numbers than I do. It seems to be just wishful thinking on your part, that true information is not getting out there. Word of mouth conversations among neighbors is more effective than any blog, and that word of mouth is spreading. Can you put a number on that?
You keep trying to divert attention from the issues and try to make it about me and others who comment here. I get a kick out of deleting you, and will continue to do so.
The feeling is mutual.
I didn't initiate the comment, it was another that noted 200 member readership that I responded.
It has nothing to do with trying to control "true" information (which is mainly opinion). Otherwise its like talking into an echo chamber. No point in having reasonable discussion if it is only with the same 15-20 folks who only want "revolution". You don't like me because I don't agree with your positions nor the way selective editing can slant information. My comments are reasonable yet deleted since some address the "Hits" you so proudly talk about. I really think you delete it because you know I'll repost and it will count as another hit for your counter. Win/win for you.
12:15, you have a problem with contempt. Your number is your own opinion, right? I thank George for deleting comments which pollute the blog with contempt and grandiose opinions.
Actually quite a lot of people have left because they are unhappy with the board. Johansen and Blagg for sure. The Bird Lady probably would if she could. The Sheriff that lived over by Ottersen that got in the mess with Chris Hanson. Certainly the Ottersens have considered leaving. How about Durdel? I know he considered it. He said he hated coming here now because it just made him angry. The elderly couple, on the east side that owned the RV, had the son that injured his back. I cant think of their names right now. They couldn't move their Fifth Wheel any more and couldn't afford to pay for it to be moved so were forced to sell their property. Gere Johnson and Janet Angelier, really nice people on the north side of the lake, said they were just fed up, took a significant loss on their property just to get out.
Those are just a few that I can think of right of the top. There are hundreds. How may other places have a 25-30% turn over every year?
Many, many more have complained about the unethical and/or illegal actions of the Board.
Are property prices going up in value in Surfside, yes, but not as much as in other similar locations. Not as much as the properties right outside the HOA. Equal properties outside the HOA sell for much higher prices.
Many studies produced by real estate companies indicate that HOA increase the values of properties in the HOA. Yet, not in Surfside.
However independent studies indicate that prices to not increase as quickly in HOAs as they do in communities that do not have an HOA. See the study below.
Of the 900 home analyzed, 55% were HOA-governed, and 45% were not. Robertson’s analysis used mathematical calculations to account for other factors that affect home prices, such as number of bedrooms and bathrooms, size of the home and lot, as well as the timing of the sale. Dollar figures were adjusted for inflation.
The study examined the percent change in a home’s value over time. It then compared appreciation rates of properties in HOA and non-HOA communities.
Comparing a home’s most recent sale price to its previous sale price, Robertson determined the Annual Percentage Return (APR) for each home in the random sample of three Counties selected.
The data reveal something unexpected by many in the HOA industry. According to the data, homes that are not governed by HOA covenants, restrictions and rules increased in value, on average, at a significantly higher rate than homes located in HOA-governed communities.
See the full story at https://independentamericancommunities.com/2019/06/18/new-research-busts-myth-that-hoas-protect-property-values/
As the subject of future research, Robertson suggests examining several possible causes for the correlation between HOAs and lower APR on investment in HOA-governed properties.
Home buyers cannot or do not want to pay HOA fees.
HOAs have a negative stigma, due to greater public awareness of frequent HOA disputes.
Consumers who value their rights tend to avoid HOAs.
In Surfside, I believe the main reason is the corrupt Board, although all the other reasons above apply here also. More people sell, which dramatically increases the supply, which reduces the demand. Selling you property here means you have more competition and less potential buyers per property, so the prices stay lower. Secondly, the tree covenant causes damage to the appearance of the entire community.
Lets face it, Surfside could be a wonderful place, if it wasn't for the corrupt HOA BOARD. If we could eliminate the HOA, all of our property values would take a jump up. The HOA owns quite a bit of land. If that land were sold, and the money from that land split equally amongst the members, everyone would benefit.
January 31, 2020 at 12:36 AM
We've been through that. The board does not want everyone to know what is going on. They prefer to sneak things through. For example, where are the Architectural Reports? They should show every application, whether it was approved or rejected and why. It was either Johansen or Blagg that asked for a report like that, the Board refused.
Considering is not the same as leaving, and your opinion about 100's of people and home values is nothing more than that - thank you Mr. Cox.
Anyone notice this on the Surfside Webpage? https://www.surfsideonline.org/
"We are putting together a petition for our website for members to voice their opinion on keeping our deputy patrol service. You the members are the voice of Surfside, lets make sure you’re voices are heard! We will put a notice in the weekender once the petition is in place."
Looks like the 9 members of the elitist board have made another decision for us without asking our opinion. This is not a survey, you cant write on a petition that you don't agree, you either sign or you dont. Just another example of Surfside Board Facism.
Good point 4:56 Where do I sign that I am against wasting money on a keystone cop? Sounds like..."Heads I win, tails you lose". The survey means nothing. Who comes up with this nonsense? The General Manager? God help us.
Here is the Sheriff Petition. WARNING, THIS IS NOT A SURVEY...YOU CAN ONLY VOTE YES!
https://www.surfsideonline.org/deputy-service-petition/
You can also email the sheriff directly with your opinion. It does not have to be a rubber stamp for the Board. You may have another thought which could be useful.
Typical Surfside BOT. I'm not going anywhere near that phony "petition" or "survey".
They told me in order to complete a petition I would have to have signatures, name, and address of all on the form. Essentially, I would have to follow the same rules of the WA state initiative process for elections.
Again, the Surfside BOT believes they are above the law and don't have to follow the rules.
2:16.... I made a signed comment early in the strand, and an anonymous comment on Feb 1st/10:07. We have a lot of diverse opinions here - deal with it.
3:43....Nope. Now you've been told twice.
Surfside has much greater potential than the current Board seems interested in nurturing. Our location is such a fantastic piece of the planet, unique in its' way and still a bit remote.
The current attitude that prevails on our Board is to focus increasingly on contrived enforcement measures, while lacking any real inspiration for making this a better community.
Continuing with the Tree Policy promises an ugly landscape, and limits the pool of people interested in owning property here. There needs to be a new approach that seeks to help owners enhance the appearance and value of their property.
It is counter-productive to ignore what the members appear to want, or to make assumptions without making an effort to survey member opinions. In some cases, we see rules being made to prevent members from doing what they want to do. Hopefully the Arch. Comm. will recognize that string lights are very popular, and appropriate to our community. RV sites can be nicely enhanced with well constructed steps, patios, firewood racks.
There is always some wisdom in defining some boundaries, but some things appear more to seek to challenge or discourage people's individuality, and not to make this a better community. Shed eaves limitations ? That's a crazy reach.
I think that once the Tree Policy is eliminated, this community can give up the resentments and isolation, one from another. Without allowing there to be a social strata, our goals can far better align, and a greater sense of community allowed to develop. This policy is the bane of the community, and nothing good will come of it if allowed to continue.
The Ocean is moving west from our real estate, and pretending otherwise is living in a reality. Topping trees is a weird and counter-productive practice. Why "GROW" trees, and ignore the best advice for their well-being ? Or buy plastic ones.
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