This Saturday 9:00 am at the Business Office...
Any proposed covenant change requires a member hearing where members can express their views and feelings on the proposed change. There is no member vote, only the vote to accept or reject by the Board.
From my observations of comments here on the blog, the majority of comments are against any change. There should be disclosure at the hearing of the written comments for and against the change. The numbers should be provided. Even with notices on the "official" web page, The WeekEnder and FaceBook, it appears that many members are not aware of the proposed covenant change.
It is understandable that many members are not aware. How many bother to check the web site with information months behind and incomplete information. The Weekender has proven to be nothing more than a puzzle page. Facebook contains frivolous postings.
A simple change of the Bylaws that allow member electronic voting and requirement that members must approve all covenant changes, would allow members to be directly involved in their association. Until those changes are made, we can only expect more of the same.
Will this Board listen to the members and act in behalf of all? We will soon see.
43 comments:
This HOA really needs to come into the 21st century, they say all information concerning all aspects of day to day operation can be found online. But then they refuse to allow electronic voting, what are they afraid of? I can easily see 50 to 75% voter turnout and an actual voice of the members being presented. Scary thought, huh!
The BOT is just going through steps necessary to do this. Approval is assured.
Anonymous 10:18. I’d like to know where to find information on line! The official website is not current with BOT minutes and for the past few months all that is posted are the minutes, no background information as in the past. Also as I’ve stated many times where are the architectural committee minutes? They are supposed to done in regular minute format and for the past few months it is not even recorded who was present at the meeting. I think the members should be informed of the process the committee went through to present this proposed lighting covenant to the BOT.
Such comments suggest you are willing to accept being ignored. Have you written the BOT ? Will you be attending the meeting ? You have an opportunity to express your views on this, and that is all members are impowered to do. Nothing should be assumed as it has not been given final approval.
Joanne, you are witnessing the most egregious violation of State law.
Not for profits are supposed to operate transparently, by law. These people tell us nothing unless they absolutely have to, and almost always after the fact.
All members that can should show up and at least voice their opinion. The more the better. Be respectful and professional and let them know how you feel about it.
I was just referring to what we are told if we ask, this comes from me being a relatively new lot owner and my experiences. Not saying it’s actually a factual statement. I just know things really need to change and that starts with allowing all residents to have a voice near and far. I witnessed the strong arm begging for proxies this summer at the compactor and am not sure any resident needs to be subject to that. I think this is supposed to be a Democratic type HOA not a “We are right, smart, and know what’s best for all” society. Just what I have observed in 8 months, and my permanent residence is in an HOA.
I would sign my name but am not sure I am ready to experience the backlash.
Trust me. Never do on this blog.
Impower?
It hasn't been given final approval. Sure thing, Cox.
Steve & JoAnne,
I am 10:18 & 4:03.
I am 7 hours away and can not just come over for something that appears to be already decided. We are looking at permanent residence on the Peninsula and at this point have only an RV lot in Surfside, trying now to decide if that’s where we will land. The BOT and HOA need to follow Federal, State, County, and city laws, more and more courts are ruling against HOA’s due to violations against these laws. I just will continue to campaign for online voting and getting ride of the Archaic in Person and Proxy voting.
Again not comfortable signing my name.
Steve, nice try, but I've been here too long. Been lied to, multiple times by Board members.
My opinion is that that this organization has seen its time, and needs to be dissolved. It cannot be operated honestly, so it needs to go.
Steve, nice try but I had been lied to way too many times, by the board and its president.
This organization can not operate honestly, or within state law. It has repeatedly violated the regulations for a nonprofit corporations. It needs to be dissolved.
Hear you loud and clear! We definitely need easier access for members to vote. When we lived 6 1/2 hours from here, never voted as we didn’t even know anyone to send our proxy to! I gave out some more information fliers today about the hearing with a copy of the new proposed covenant. Again no one was even aware of the situation. With all the fliers I’ve handed out only one person knew what hearing I was referring to! True only the BOT can vote on this covenant, but they are supposed to be acting on behalf of the members and the majority aren’t even aware this is happening. Now I know the BOT feels they’ve done their duty as it has been posted 30 days before the hearing, but based on my experiences the news is not out there! I think more time needs to be spent on such a serious decision as this one. Why the urgency? It was on the BOT agenda to be voted on December 7th!
Hope you are able to move here and enjoy the majority of us who are trying to just relax and enjoy this wonderful place. As I’ve stated previously we’ve bought and sold properties in two HOA so moving here permanently in 2017, that didn’t concern us. That is until we got embroiled in this lengthy process of trying to get clarification after we received our lighting complaint in July! Hopefully cool minds will prevail
525 - understandable, considering the virulence with which the ruling junta carry themselves on this blog.
January 16, 2020 at 10:18 AM . 50% to 70% voter turnout with electronic voting. That is what the board is afraid of.
10:18 & 4:03. Dont invest your money here. The problems with this HOA are too overwhelming. Due to the mishandling of the asbestos water pipes, we could be in for a really big lawsuit if one of those employees gets lung problems. It could be in the millions and each of us will have to pay our part of that suit. There is a small group of people that control Surfside, you WILL NOT have a say. This is not a democracy it is more like an Oligarchy. The properties outside the HOA sell for more than the same property in the HOA, but it is worth the extra dollars. The penninsula has lots of inexpensive properties for sale. The difference in cost is not much to pay for your freedom.
Okay, so you can't attend. you can take 5 minutes to send an e-mail, or 15 to send a written letter. Anyone who is unwilling to do anything is getting what they deserve - no respect. The problems are out of hand, and keep getting worse. But the blunders of 2018 resulted in County, State and Federal rebukes, fines and expensive consequences like the Wetlands Mitigation, soon to be decided by the County.
If you are too lazy to make the mosy minimal effort, I think it can be assumed you just expect everything to be laid on a platter for you. There aremany challenges to be met along the way to a better community, and we may never get there. But rolling over and giving up is what they hope will happen, and has been happening for a long time.
We still do not know if there may be expensive long term consequences for the Asbestos mishandling, and we could be looking at a six figure settlement on the mitigation. It will end up costing us ALL if only a handful of people protest this fowl disregard for the members and their wishes for the community. We've all been angry and flat pissed at times, as well as lied to and ignored.
Giving up entirely puts us all at their mercy, and speaking up is all that you can do to try and prevent it. "Nice try Steve". That's pitiful.
Make sure you are polite and respectful to the board at the hearing. They deserve it. They are the ones who actually do something for this community.
Take your anonymous advice and shove it !! Trampling on owner's rights is NOT "doing something FOR the community", but TO the community. Disgusting.
Wow, thanks for the beat down Steve.
Think we may just take 7:34’s advice, sell our lot and buy elsewhere. I have made a few respectful comments on this blog stating only my feelings and opinions based on what I have observed and read. I have been belittled and talked down to by people that do not know me or even seem to want to discuss different opinions. I understand it is a blog but as residents in this small community maybe try being a little more respectful. I could unleash hate and disdain but what good is that????
Go talk till you are blue in the face for your allowed 30 seconds at the meeting Saturday, then watch the BOT snub their noses at you and pass what they want.
I still state electronic voting will get more members involved and possibly better people in control!
I agree. Cox is one of the biggest do nothing whiners.
Then when someone actually does something or takes a stand, he whines about that.
Keep living in your fantasy land.
When have the Trustees been respectful and professional?
End The Junta!
Okay, I'll buy into electronic voting.
I ask one thing though. The business office provide a computer station for one week so older members who don't have computers or computer skills.
2:07 AM
Ocean Park/ Timberland library has 10 or 12 computers and all you need is a library card which they will issue on the spot. Very nice and helpful people work there and I am sure they would be happy to help.
This in an option vs office personnel advising on how to vote. An independent company could handle the counting and reporting of the results with each member having their own unique voting number. I truly believe this would greatly increase voting percentages, 10% voter turnout is not a true reflection of member opinion. 50 to 75% would be a better reflection of member feedback and opinions.
2:07 - It has been repeated numerous times on this blog - the mailing option would still be allowed to enable as many members to vote as possible. The objective in putting Electronic Voting in place, is to make it as easy as possible to vote, and get rid of proxies. If people are going to cast their vote, they need to make the decision to do so, and not leave the choice to someone else.
Establishing a site would enable surveys to be taken to gauge community opinion as well. Nothing wrong with choosing the mail option, but you might want to take it as an incentive to become comfortable with the computer and this system of voting. it has become very popular with HOAs.
9:22 - I've never seen any inappropriate behavior at a meeting in Surfside. Not saying it hasn't happened, but your caution coupled with praise for the BOT is unnecessary. The Board has approved this for member review, even though it does not reflect member's needs or wishes. That is not cause for praise and words of appreciation.
I'll be there and expect everyone to be civil, though members are entitled to express their feelings about the new trend in creating complex and unnecessary restrictions. The more restrictions, the more grey areas, and lack of clarity. That breeds conflict, and the HOA responds with legal efforts on our dime. It has been suggested by Mr. Reber, Business Office manager and wanna be Compliance Czar, that we should hire 2 compliance officers.
There are about 300 to 500 people in Surfside at any one time, 6 months out of the year. So we should hire 2 Compliance Officers to keep these lawless people compliant ? Get real !!The lighting restrictions and new mandatory closing inspections are busy work for the compliance police at our expense.
Hey Cox. We don't have vote by mail viting here. Read the CC&Rs. We have in person voting and proxy voting.
Not on J, not Cox, not the Reverend says
Reber wants to provide the equivalent of 1 full time compliance officer. The current contract was for 1/2 time. I'm okay with that.
Compliance is voluntary and shouldn't be based on if somebody complains. Now, what is enforced, and changes to the covenants (the lighting for example) is a different issue. I did find it interesting to see that Clancy was one of the members who voted for the McMurphy's in their appeal (as documented in the board meeting minutes). That doesn't seem to align with a lot of the unsubstantiated rumors that freely flow here...
Not on J, not Cox, not the Reverend says
My post at 2:20 should read "compliance isn't voluntary..."
You don't think the bot doesn't discuss how votes will go "before" the meeting. Pfffffff
Not on j, you maybe ok with having a full time compliance officer, but I’m sure not! Pretty soon another part time would be needed and then maybe even more! I really don’t want my dues and assessments being wasted this way. I think we should be very careful with our money as we know things may hit us yet!! I really don’t want someone driving around inspecting our property or others to see if we’re in compliance! We moved here to rest and enjoy the beach, which is supposed to be a restful place not worry when the next complaint will come! And I know someone will say “well you should be following the rules”. We’ve been here since 2008 and we were following the rules as far as we knew until this year!
And by the way Clancy May have voted in favor of our appeal, but in a phone conversation with mr Clancy he indicated he planned to vote approval on this covenant because he saw no problem with it! This before even listening to what the members have to say at the hearing
@JoAnne
I found the Architecture minutes online and available through 12/19.
https://www.surfsideonline.org/meeting-minutes/architecture-committee/
Anonymous 6:10. How interesting they turned up today!
Minutes were there. No mention of the covenant change.
And how interesting the minutes only are recorded from 09/24/19 on, after the discussion and approval by the architectural committee of the new proposed covenant! If it isn’t recorded it didn’t happen!
Not on J, not Cox, not a board member, not the Reverend, just a member says
@JoAnne - I emphasize with your situation regarding the lights.
I'm not in agreement with the proposed lighting covenant change but that is a different issue for me than having a full time compliance officer.
I want the properties kept as agreed when purchased.
That is how our property is kept, including keeping trees to the appropriate height (without having lost a single one due to topping)or having ugly dead branches since we didn't wait to long and then cut too much back...
I'm a professional who attends many meetings and runs many meetings. Those are not meeting minutes. Some of you know that and are calling that out. Now, don't just mention it and call it out on a blog sitting behind your computer screen.
Additionally, where are the other BOT meeting minutes? Where are the other committee meeting minutes?
11:33 - Hey brainchild....If you cast your own vote you are voting by mail, whatever the form sez. If you send it in by the allowed date, there is no need to name anyone to cast your vote for you. It isn't necessary to allow blank proxies if you put Electronic voting in place. A mail-in option can be allowed for those that want to. Call it whatever you like. It's not in the works is it ? Nope.
There's our egotistical, arrogant, rambling, lie and rumor spreader, name-caller Cox. Ramble on Cox. I'm glad they refuse to appoint you to the board.
Hey Cox: Stop blabbing and spreading false information.
Verify what you say before you say it.
This is taken directly from the October 21, 2019 letter pertaining to "Announcement of 2020 Special Meeting and Voting Instructions".
Any members whose dues and assessments are current as of 4:00 p.m., Friday, November 15, 2019, may vote at this meeting of the Homeowners Association to be held at the Surfside Board Room, 31402 H Street, Ocean Park, Washington, on Saturday, November 16, 2019, at 9:00 a.m. Those Members may vote either in person or by Proxy.
Cox, I wonder how you will respond. I wonder if I will still be the brainchild or something else.
Yes, the form is called a "proxy", and I guess the system is called "voting by proxy". Goody for you ! Voting by mail does NOT need to allow blank ballots to be awarded to designated Trustees or members to make the decision. It is perfectly obvious that this is what I was referring to. You are pitiful ! There was no false information, and this was only a discussion, not a proposal. Get it ?
What the hell are you talking about?
I've said why not implement vote by mail. Get it!? LOL
I have reviewed the latest RCW. RCW 64.90.455 defines several types of votes: in person, absentee ballot, proxy, and ballot (a vote without a meeting).
We need to opt in to RCW 64.90.
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