MEMBER REQUESTED TOPIC POSTING
I hope everybody understands that when the architectural committee approved your plans they also approved your lighting program. If a new covenants is put in place to control lighting it will only affect properties after a new covenant is put in place anything before the covenants stays as it is because it had already been approved. There are laws to protect property owners from this kind of thing.
It appears that all anyone who is trying to put this new covenant in place is looking to harass and find the members. If this covenants is put in place the board will need to understand that that association will have to pay the cost to modify and change all lighting. To do so there are standards set by the County and state that need to be followed
you cannot compare Surfside to the desert country of Arizona.+
How come this group is not trying to find a way to put lighting in Surfside to make it safer like it intersections and other places with low visibility at night. The office area needs the lighting improved so that those people who use the office at night can leave the building safely. We have no one in this organization that is qualified to do this kind of thing.
45 comments:
What the hell is this rambling mumbo jumbo. The sentences run together and don't make any sense. I'm sure the board members aren't afraid of the law. The law won't do a thing.
I support the IDA!
I support the IDA! Let's be good environmental stewards!
What the heck is IDA?
International Dark Sky Association
Clancy's a big supporter, without i, his night vision goggles don't let him peer in peoples houses.
Let’s be “good environmental stewards” & quit cutting down trees. And people who live here year round know how dark it gets. This dark sky initiative seems absurd.
About 100 or more members attended a community review of a ridiculous lighting covenant. It was established that the safety of handicapped individuals is protected by Federal law. It was established that at least 80% of Surfside homes have area lights at their entrances, and that elderly/retired people are a dominant portion of our membership. It was also agreed among the Trustees present, that the covenant would remain unchanged, with the single exception of adding a lumin threshold at property lines affected by area lights. The Board never did make good on the verbal agreement, emphasized by Williams, current B. President. Where did this "new covenant" come from? The clear understanding at the close of that meeting was that the community is obligated to have a lighting policy that assures a wide array of lighting choices that provide for SAFE PEDESTRIAN PASSAGE in dark and/or foggy conditions. I haven't heard anything about a proposed covenant change, and find it offensive that this "Dark skies crap has been pushed back into action. I emphatically object to a revisiting of this special interest nonsense being slipped by member awareness. This needs to be vigorously opposed and changes limited to what the Board pledged in the first place.
This dark sky crap has come from the same group who promote tree topping, fire-wise and hate RV's. Their next target will be camp fires. You could not see so many lights until they killed all the trees. All this selfish bunch care about is their ow self interest. These kind of people do not belong or are wabted in our community.
Can’t tell by reading the architectural committee meeting minutes what any plans or thoughts are being considered. It only states “lighting covenant was discussed” in quite a few 2020 minutes, so guess it will be a surprise?
I am completely shocked by the way a small community has nothing to do but complain and throw fits! I see why surfside HOA has been sued over basic bullying. I moved here to enjoy a beautiful place, a place that I could retire, a place I could find peace and be happy and a place I could call home!
Before Covid-19 started I was a poultry farmer who love her job, Farm and knowing that I was helping to feed Americans! I was proud to give back to my community and to give a helping hand to who ever needed it. Then Covid-19 hit and it hit us hard, I'm talking hard!
We were not able to sell anything from our farm, not because we were sick. No we never were sick just stuck in the not knowing how this virus was spread. No live animal sales, no egg sales, couldn't even give away anything! Just completely shut down! I went through our cash reserves and savings to feed the animal's, no help from the government! I was forced to put down several thousand birds. Forced to sell my home, had a car repossessed, sell personal items just to make it. Some of the money from the sale of my home went to buy a small piece of property here so I could enjoy my life, meet some nice people and try to not cry on the past! In return I have figured out that I am living in an area with a bunch of bullies! Yes I said it, Bullies! I am shocked when an adult will pick on someone's grammar, spelling and other nonsense! Maybe you need to loose everything to appreciate the simple things in life!
I am not afraid to stand up for myself or someone else who needs it. Are you?
Why can't we enjoy life, be proud to help others?
I know that I am to darn old for this garbage and frankly you are too!
Thank you to the member who sent me the Email, requesting I post the provided topic on Lighting. I welcome information and opinions on Surfside issues. Both sides of an issue are welcome. Just send me an Email and I will copy and paste it as a topic with or without your identity.
Also, Thank you for the kind offers of assistance during my eye surgery. Friends ans family are taking good care of me.
Lost Hope has quite a story, and I want to say welcome to beach time, great sunsets, some nice neighbors, and a dysfunctional HOA.
WA. State parks have agreed to US military manuevers in forests and on beaches of State Parks. Military flyovers of Olympic Nat. Park have been increased greatly in numbers recently, as have submarine manuevers in Hood Canal. With a large percentage of elderly and retired members, good lighting at night is a requirement not to be compromised, nor our safety. The community is only a trifle of artificial light, while all of these other extreme impacts have huge implications for environmental damage. We have no reason to sacrifice our safety at night out of guilt, and these other impacts. are much more consequential. Stargazers have said that Surfside is very good for night viewing.
Any bet the trees and light are being used as subterfuge here? Our water infrastructure is feeling to the point we are getting a boil water notice every other month. But we worry about light and trees.
Does the whole thing have to collapse around us before proper action is taken?
Yes. It's called fall-down maintenance. Stumpside is very good at it.
Heavy-handed enforcement in HOAs is invariably over an issue of marginal significance, which works particularly well at emphasizing the power of the HOA. The unwillingness to compromise over triffles, agitates member sensibilities and causes frustration. Demands for tree topping every year or 2, is not an insignificant expense, so for some members is difficult to manage without sacrificing other needed maintenance. Typical to this type of covenant, there is no rational reason for the emphasis or expense. Power trips such as this intimidate the membership, discourage members, create unnecessary conflict, and leads often to serious legal measures and expense. The lighting issue has shown signs of having the same design and intent. A year has passed since the BOT assurred members that the existing covenant wpuld remain overall, unchanged, with only a lumin level to be established and monitored. Member dissatisfaction with the secretive manner in which the Architectural Comm. created the last proposed change was made perfectly clear at last year's member meeting. We see that the response has been to continue these discussions secretively, providing NO meeting minutes outlining the substance of discussion in closed meetings. This shows the disregard for member opinions in setting COMMUNITY policy.
Ok, I'm lost on this one. What the hell does the milatary have to do with anything here? And exactly what do you consider "submarine mauevers"? As someone who has spent time on a sub, I can tell you moost educated individals do not call leaving and returning to base a manuever.
I would also be curious if anyone who complains about having lighting limits would still feel the same way if they lived here full time and had the inside of their home lit up due to a neighbors excessive bright lights that arn't aimed properly and on all night.
Meeting minutes reflect action, not discussion, you know that Steve. Members are free to call into the meetings, so how can it be secretive?
Members cannot just call into meetings freely! You need to have the phone number and the code to gain access. I know as I recently “attended” a couple of committee meetings.
This is an HOA and not the Pentagon. Meeting minutes can include whatever the committee or comm.secretary chooses. In this case, lighting is a primary aspect of living, and for the large number of elderly members, myself one, safe passage to and from my house is not a negotiable factor. With all meetings closed, the only way anyone has a clue what is being considered as COVENANT CHANGE is by offering some information in published minutes. Not doing so is intended to keep discussion confined to the private committee meetings. What you offer is subterfuge.
You are very poorly informed. The reference to military manuevers establishes that we are living in a modern world with many demands for uses of wilderness, National and State Parks, and coastal areas. Air Force jets make frequent fly-overs of Olympic Nat. Park, the jet noises known to disturb wildlife. The same is true of the many Submarines that are based in the Sound area. It is known that the ships generate sonic noises that greatly disturb whales, and it is believed to be contributing to the decline in Orca numbers, contributing to declining birth rates. There is minimal artificial light in Surfside and next to nothing 1/2 the year. Any individual light problems between neighbors can be easily negotiated, if necessary, with HOA mediation. Limitimg wattages to 65 in most cases would be enough without an elaborate intrusive covenant change.
About 50 Wa.State Parks have given the okay for potential military manuevers, including Cape Disappointment on the Columbia. Cape D. already hosts Coast Guard manuevers on the N.Head cliffs and in the Park waters below. It's an awesome park that is already overused. I've witnessed these manuevers several times, and it is interesting - but extremely noisy and intrusive, hours long. Creating a very restrictive lighting covenant as was suddenly thrust on the membership a year ago, had all the earmarks of a sneaky move toward manipulative enforcement fun for the lovers of enforcement power. We donn't want it or need it.
Saying I'm poorly informed is incorrect and is only your opinion, which btw you are just using to inflate your ego. Everything you state is known by anyone who reads a newspaper. While I will agree that what the seals do and/or the practice the CG just did could be considered maneuvers, Subs don't and cannot do the same in this area. Again, traveling back in forth from port isn't considered a maneuver. So calling it such is incorrect.
Care to share YOUR Navel experience? I'm retired Navy and as I said have spent a good portion of it on subs, so please stop your attempt at trying to "inform" me unless you can provide higher qualifications other than being a online wiz with google search.
And again, using a subject such as the military for comparison to the lighting issue is a huge stretch, even for you, as to relevance.
You totally missed my point, which has little to with the Navy, and nothing to do with my ego. The proponent of the Dark Skies Society referred to light pollution, which is minimal in Surfside, and what light there is, is needed. Noise pollution, air and water pollution, are much more pervasive, hard to control, dangerous to our health. Having military maneuvers where the public recreates and wildlife is abundant is an excessive impact. Cape Disappointment Park is about 15 miles South of Ocean Park. Virtually all of the State Parks north of Willapa Bay are also part of this new agreement.
It's pretty certain that members are willing to consider any practical proposals relating to lighting. Any cases where excessive wattage is being used serves as an incentive to establish a wattage limit. Practical solutions are all that reasonable people expect.
You should check out the Dark Skies Society’s website. They are not against safety lighting. They actually promote it. Safety and the reduction of light pollution are not incompatible. There are many fixtures the will light pathways, entrances, driveways, and landscaping that does not result in increased light pollution. Lighting needs to be designed to illuminate the without shining up into areas that do not need illumination.
Surfside doesn't need to be dictated to by the HOA. It hasn't been determined what members want, need or prefer, nor established that there is a problem that needs fixing. As I said, if there is proof that there is an issue between members, reasonable wattage limits are a simple solution. But dictating what light fixtures are "allowed" and which are not is bullsh*t.
And you honestly believe it would be fair and legal to make all members change their lights to adhere to a new covenant? That’s not going to happen I guarantee! We’ll see you in court if you think that’s what everyone wants!
See George, Cox won't even try to learn about the IDA. He's just as messed up as the current board. He's a stick in the mud.
Oooooooh, tough person says he's going to sue the HOA for violating the covenants. Good one. I'm sure you won't win! Go for it!
Just over a year ago, that's exactly what the Board offered as a revised covenant. That Jan. 2020 member meeting required before finalizing their proposed change, received a loud rejection, and the BOT listened. They backed-off because of a strong member response, which in Surfside seemed doubtful until it materialized. They had moved back the date to mid-January, seemingly to minimize member response. But more than 100 members showed-up to stop it. It would have barred area lights among many other restrictions.
I got news for all of you. You bought property in an HOA. HOA’s elect directors or trustees to manage the business of the HOA in accordance with the HOA’s governing documents. In Surfside the governing documents gives the board of trustees a lot of power. If the board decides, in their opinion, the community wants an outdoor lighting covenant favoring the dark sky principal then they have the legal authority to adopt such a covenant. If you don’t like it you have limited choices, sell your property, file a lawsuit, work to elect a new board. Only one of those choices is guaranteed to bring satisfaction.
Yes we did buy property here, but not to have the covenants change to make a member completely change their lights because the BOT put into effect a brand new covenant! Have you ever heard of grandfathering? I certainly hope the board is smart enough not to try and push this through!
HOA Trustees are volunteers elected with no specific expertise. At that rate, they are expected to act in the best interest of the MAJORITY of the members, and not special interests, which the Dark Skies advocates are. I am knowledgeable on what their advocacy is about, but consider it inappropriate as a guideline for a largely retirement oriented/part-time community. Handicapped individuals have Federal protection that comes to bear on communities in which they live. Our area is not known for its' clear nightime skies, so is not a community based on astronomical pursuits. I backpacked hundreds of miles in wilderness areas of the N.W., and fully appreciate how awesome a full view of the starry sky can be. But I am 69 years old, take medications that effect balance and night vision, and having good lighting at the entrances to our Surfside home is my primary concern. Surfside is not brightly lit, and astronomers need not go far to get away from all artificial light. No, the HOA will NOT do whatever they want to do, and YES there are ways of preventing that happening without member approval.
I cannot believe anyone on this peninsula would be complaining about lights
from this area blocking out the night sky. If so they should move to Seattle or Portland and see what thats like.
I lookout side at night here in Surfside and see black skies 85% of the time, either cloud cover or fog. The need for light restrictions here is ridiculous. In fact there is more need for proper lighting for night time safety.
Thanks 10:18. I was starting to get involved in the Drainage Ditches Committee before I sold my property. Based on how the board treats non-elected members on committees, I'm sure glad I got a sales price I was happy with.
1018 - I'll take lawsuit, thanks,
The malfeasance by this Board is long and ugly. They ignore key services to pursue light fantasies.
As you defend so vociferously, you are probably one of them. Know this - that first lawsuit will be the lead for the avalanche.
I didn’t say I agree with the proposed lighting covenant and I didn’t say I agree with the board. What I said was, now please pay attention, the governing documents of Surfside HOA gives the board wide powers that include a simple and easy way to add or change covenants. It is a fact. Washington courts tend to support governing documents. Our choices for fighting the board are limited, expensive, difficult, and time consuming. These are the facts. I am a realist, change in Surfside is improbable. The good news, the board has dropped the lighting nonsense for now. They like their power and will not jeopardize it for an unpopular lighting covenant.
You insist on repeating what we all know as if the situation has one outcome. It doesn't. Obviously, the best approach is to prevent useless policy changes in the first place.
I insist. It does. No it's not.
"Little Sicko: is back with comment after comment attacking Cox and the Blog Host. He seems to think that Steve see's all his trash talk. Only I see it. Little Weasel needs to get a job and spend less time on here. It is because of creeps like him, that I have to now approve all comments. Can't fix stupid, but there is help for mental issues.
Post a Comment