Official Statement...
The "official" website has added the following to their home page...
***THIS IS YOUR OFFICIAL SURFSIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION WEBSITE. NO OTHER WEBSITE IS AN OFFICIAL SITE. VIEWS EXPRESSED ON ANY OTHER WEBSITE DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE FACTS OR VIEWS OF THE SURFSIDE HOA BOARD OF TRUSTEES***
As blog host of the Surfside Chat, I guess this is what I should post...
***THIS IS YOUR OFFICIAL SURFSIDE CHAT WEBSITE. NO OTHER WEBSITE IS AN OFFICIAL SITE. VIEWS EXPRESSED ON ANY OTHER WEBSITE DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE FACTS OR VIEWS OF THE HOA, SURFSIDE CHAT, IT'S HOST OR ASSOCIATION MEMBERS.***
51 comments:
They need to stick to drinking bottled water. They are becoming more silly every day. Do they feel that the blog is a threat to their version of the facts? They express "alternative facts".
Good work all. They now fear us. This new website home page language demonstrates their fear of openness, dialogue, and information sharing.
I believe at a minimum twice a year the BOT should convene an All Association BOT Q&A Time Meeting, The Lion's Den Meeting. This to be modeled after how the British Prime Minister has to appear before the British House of Commons for Question Time.
Yes, this is an interesting statement to add at a time when the BOT has refused to acknowledge a 5 month Federal investigation of wrong-doing by the Surfside HOA, and well over $100,000 of member funds have been spent on fines, asbestos abatement, and legal fees.
Interesting to cast doubt on the Blog when the December newsletter has a statement by president Gary Williams in which he knowingly lies about Surfside's status with regulatory agencies.
Surfside "Surf-In-Sider": "we continue to work to remain in compliance with state regulations concerning our Water System." Dec. 2018
At that time, the Blog had brought to the attention of many members that Surfside was embroiled in a Federal Investigation and had paid $45,000 to Asbestos Abatement Services to remove hazardous asbestos waste from the Waterworks property, and the HOA/Prez had written a check to WA State L&I for $27,000 n fines. The Chinook Observer then reported on the matter, confirming the Blog account. The truth had already been publicized !
This is member money that has not been properly approved in public meeting as required by State Law. The HOA Board has not acknowledged ANY of this, but are spending OUR money freely, and complaining about "other sources of information " not being trustworthy. What a big ugly cover-up.
Well said 8:45 The more they try to cover up, the worse they make it for their on credibility. Hopefully the new General Manager can talk some sense into them. They can blame the blog and others all they want, but it does not change the fact that this mess was created by themselves and they will be held accountable. We need to throw them all out and start over. If we can't do that, then it's time to abolish this whole failed mess called Surfside HOA.
Do you really think a new General Manager is going to challenge and talk sense into the BOT which is his boss?
Have you ever accepted a new job then immediately challenged and talked sense into your new boss?
I suspect with this BOT, "meet the new GM, the same as the old GM".
Do not count on the new GM to do anything more than toe the party line. After all, he now has his own special interest!
9:02 says
Good point 9:28. Just wishful thinking on my part. What do you propose as a solution, or is there any?
I guess you could say that 85,000 a year plus benefits is a special interest. More wasted member funds?
9:02 and Others
If I am successful getting a Voluntary Dissolution vote, per WA State 24.03 RCW, on the ballot this year, please vote yes.
Otherwise our high dues, and soon to be higher dues, seem to be with us forever. It's a pretty sad HOA to say the least.
I think that you will find that it is a small minority that wants to dissolve the HOA. They have no sensible plan for the after affects of dissolution very much like BREXIT. Shooting from the hip when you don't agree with something has never been a good at solving problems. It delivers new problems.
How arrogant and hyocritical of you 11:14 AM. You equate dissolution of an hoa to British spoiled brat racists wanting to exit the European Union.
Voluntary Dissolution, yes!
Now you have proved it. You are uninformed about BREXIT and our HOA.
It's ridiculous to think that dissolving the HOA is a viable move, while the community is in the middle of a Federal Investigation. Surfside has such extensive community property that thinking the organization can simply be abandoned is unrealistic.
It should be perfectly obvious that our community governance is a shambles, and if it were practical, getting rid of the seated Board would be smart and the responsible thing to do. We are being stonewalled, lied to, and ignored, by a BOT that has no integrity, and no regard for State law or required procedures. That's how we got into the mess we're in.
The Board pretends nothing is wrong, rather than coming clean with the truth, and admitting a great deal of work needs to be done to regain trust of the membership, and various levels of Government. The community has not been in compliance with regulators regarding water quality for years prior to the CTP going online, but was mismanaging the replacement of new waterlines, and failing to properly permit construction at the Waterworks simultaneously.
Brexit ? Focus folks. We have our own kettle of fish, and it has nothing to do with the European Union.
Then don't vote for it Steve.
You clearly haven't read any of the hoa dissolution laws. Hoa dissolution does not mean simply abandonment. Not even close. With all the issues going on now, dissolution would take longer to complete and an advantage would be that then the responsible and culpable parties would then be made accountable.
Don't put words in my mouth and call me unrealistic just because you don't want dissolution.
You are willing to give this hoa more chances. I am not!
No one has "put words in your mouth". Mr. Riley ? Guessing. You are not familiar with the electorate that votes annually in Surfside. How do you think Mr. Flood, Mr. Clancy, Mr. Williams, manage to get elected over and over, in spite of their poor performance ? The very word "change" makes this electorate quake - even if we're talking about setting clocks.
A couple of motions have been discussed as having a chance of being approved -1) electronic voting AND mail-in/ no proxies. 2) Member approval required for covenant changes (60% ?/of votes cast)
A motion for dissolution hasn't got a chance. Nothing has changed to make this year's election significantly less hostile to motions of any kind. Any way you look at it, the community needs an organization that handles day to day business, and maintains our vast community property - including a Water Plant. Dissolution would need a group of people to handle the transition, and there are very few members have interest in serving in any capacity. Who would decide who is in charge ? It is very complicated.
Is it less complicated to simply live with the lies and the malfeasance that is currently coming from the board?
Well, we certainly wouldn't want to make life more complicated, would we? Let's just allow them to continue to engage in frivolous lawsuits, miss spend our money, and generally perform the same way they have for several years now.
If we cannot compel them to give up the vehicle they use for this misconduct, that the vehicle must be taken away.
We will vote yes to dissolve this hoa. What ever it takes
getting back to the headlines, the Surfside HOA website does not provide space for discussion or dialogue. One would think if they are in the game, they would have the trustees, or the GM, on a blog to discuss the issues we are left to figure out for ourselves. True to form, it is all hype and no meat.
4:01.... I think you misconstrue what I mean by saying dissolution would be complicated. We can't just vote for dissolution and everyone simply goes home. The community has a great deal of infrastructure to maintain, bills to pay, a Water system to maintain and an urgent need to find solutions to allow the Plant to continue to function.
There needs to be trusted individuals calling the shots, and a solid plan to move forward in a different direction. The deficiencies that currently exist will not magically go away. People need to find solutions - and who would those people be ? A lack of participation is a serious problem for HOAs in general, making it very difficult to transition in any direction when change is desperately needed.
The most critical need in Surfside is that participation. We can't demand more involvement by owners who never vote or participate, and may rarely come to Surfside. We can try to expand the electorate by making it easier to vote, and that is the purpose of endorsing adding to the mail-in option, electronic voting online - which has become quite common for organizations such as ours - HOAs.
We are left really with one option : start small.
Putting the typical "outrage" comments aside, what is incorrect about the statement? There is only one official website and this blog isn't it, that is a fact.
You can agree or disagree with what is discussed on here but the fact remains this, it is a social media site run by a member. The member chooses what topics to be discussed and also chooses what comments are left to see under those topics. Saying this isn't an attack on the blog nor at its host. It is just a fact.
To Mr. Cox's comments. I agree completely with his statement concerning dissolving the HOA. I suspect that most of those that are calling for this are lot or RV owners and part timers, not those who chose to live here full time.
To his question on how Flood, Clancy and Williams get elected he left out one key point, that they volunteered themselves for the position, something that the majority of complainers don't do. He also could have asked that question without the insulting comment aimed at those of us who do vote and take an interest in the HOA other than just coming on here.
Not a green alien said,
Who are you defending? And why?. Do you actually think the bot has done even a fair job? Your either mentally challenged or in on it. You might think different if you had worked directly with that old pipe. The asbestos exposure is the worst of it, but def not all. And yes, there was collusion.
The new WEAKENDER comment Is pathetic! This corrupt BOD will go to any extreme to keep the truth from members. My interpretation: DO NOT READ GEORGES BLOG AS IT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE CORRUPTION, COVERUPS AND BLATANT MISMANAGEMENT OF OUR MONIES. I just pray there is a way to save this HOA from total bankruptcy and replace these toxic people with members of integrity. DO WE HAVE A PRAYER TO SAVE THIS CATASTROPHE?
Surfside may have crossed the red line. What happens to Surfside may be out of our hands. Regulatory government agencies may make the decisions about our future because we have failed to govern according to our articles and bylaws as well as Federal, State, County rules and regulations.
What will be done with our water system and operations may be decided by others. It is obvious that we as an association have failed to operate a water system in accordance to rules and regulations and exposed the workers to long term health hazards. The Board has failed to even acknowledge publicly a problem or put forth any corrective plan of action. All they provide is a cover up of their failures for any oversight.
We will have safe clean water. The State Department of Health will see that we are provided with drinking water. We may not like how they do it, but it will be done.
The worst thing in all this mess is the health damage that may have been done to our young water department workers. They seem to get forgotten in all the discussions.
11:21....It ought to be pretty plain to see that what you call "the only website" is entirely void of ANY mention of the failures of management in this community, not to mention the blatant lie stated proudly by Gary Williams claiming full regulatory compliance, in the last quarterly newsletter sent to the entire membership.
Guess bitching about the integrity of the Blog is the best you can do, while defending the status-quo and offering no indication you give a damn what happens next. Finding practical means of changing our predicament starts with identifying the problems, discussing what can be done to solve them, and taking corrective actions.
Our community is greatly challenged to try and muster ANY political will to guide it, and the system is built to resist change in a community that has only about 1/3 or less fulltime residents. It is mighty easy to make the statements you make so smugly, but a very difficult task to make efforts to try and motivate our membership to care, and work toward making the corrections and changes that can make it function as it is intended, rather than serving a very conservative minority as it does.
So those dedicated folks you say volunteered, got the community into this mess, don't even acknowledge it exists, are not capable of making corrections, but will happily spend vast sums of OUR money on trivial enforcement, and pray the community is magically delivered from the pit we're sinking in. You don't see a problem there ?
There is no propaganda line bub. George devotes his time to bringing the truth out, while the BOT president and apparently the rest of the BOT as well have no interest in the truth being told. This is the only source of factual information at the community's disposal, and that is probably why you still read the blog.
But you can make your righteous statements about how everyone is so deluded but you, and everyone else has an "agenda" so you can't participate. You are lazy, and like everyone else, have no idea what should be done to put the community on a positive path. The stink-bombs that get bumped off of this site want to bitch and insult other bloggers, but have no ideas, no suggestions, just a righteous attitude. Just like you.
That's the thing - you can't offer any significant input but complain that you are treated unfairly. The blog is intended to be a discussion among neighbors. All HOA communities have the same kinds of problems. Those who can communicate and find solutions succeed. We are NOT at that juncture.
Again, Cox should enlighten us as to his volunteer activities on committees and the board in Surfside. Why does he feel free to tag people as lazy with no ideas for improvements in Surfside? Many of us have put in many hours and days toward improving this HOA.
Sounds like your wasting your time on the wrong issues to me 11:30. As the current n future fines, investigations,etc, prove. Your argument falls flat.
Nice try there Stevie, but once again you avoid what someone has written and instead use it to state your views with the usual insults.
What I said was an undeniable fact, there is only one official website of the HOA. That was the comment. It had nothing to do with the content of the site, just that it was the only official one.
Then you felt the need to say I'm bitching about the blog. Again, not what I said. I described what this blog is and even said it wasn't an attack. But of course as usual you felt the need to ignore this and respond incorrectly.
So in short you chose to ignore both of these points and instead decided to comment, using your term "smugly", with insults towards me. Typical.
Thank you 11:30 for your comment. You hit the nail on the head with that one. Cox is one of a long list of characters that don't do anything for the community besides coming here on a daily basis to "enlighten" us ignorant status quo folks with his self proclaimed expertise. I'm sure he has framed that article from the Observer, since it has his name in it, and has it displayed prominently on the wall.
Perhaps he is simply trying to improve the community.
Maybe you should take a page from his book, instead of supporting the special interests that have stolen our association.
11:30 & 9:51.... I was addressing a comment by a blogger, not everyone who owns property in Surfside. I still hear no acknowledgement of the current problems, nor do I hear any suggestions as to what to do about them. You want to bitch about other people's opinions as to what should be done, and ridicule the Blog for being a discussion site. That is what I was addressing.
Being part of the discussion to try and figure out solutions or ideas that can be acted on is part of the process of participation in the politics of the community. I visit this site to participate in that way, as do many members, and I learn about a lot of stuff that George has a line on in the community.
I served on my Lacey HOA Board for 3 years as vice-president, and was very active for another 2 years after that. I have considered getting involved in the Surfside HOA, but I put a lot into my past service elsewhere. I'm 67 years old, and will make the decisions that best suit me, without your advice. By the way, you are the one who is referring to yourself as an "ignorant status-quo" person. I didn't.
But I do hear a lot of wishful denial in comments such as yours. You want to claim that the HOA's doing a fine job, and we have no worries. But of course that is only the b.s. we hear from the BOT, and not reality.
What we know is that the "official website of the HOA"(as you call it), is the tool of the president of the HOA, rarely speaks of anything controversial, and is known to make false or misleading statements, such as the Winter issue claiming "we continue to work to remain in compliance with State regulations regarding our Water System" - a complete fabrication.
How do you defend a president who lies so easily about such a very serious situation ? I don't hear anyone willing to identify themselves calling me "Stevie" - got integrity ?
The knee jerk, let us fix something quick ideas are not the thing for
Surfside. Eliminating the tree covenant creates new problems and issues. Dissolving the HOA creates massive issues and problems. Tossing out all board members who must/should be held accountable is not a solution. I think that we need professional help. The amateurs and volunteers have proven to be more of a liability than an asset. Why not see what the new GM brings to the table instead of flying off on another tangent of craziness?
A few ideas follow:
new legal counsel for the hoa (recommendations needed from other HOA's who are satisfied with legal counsel)
never hire an opportunist, well digger to manage our water system
quit hiring and overpaying employees who are not prepared to do a good job
quit hiring the same companies for expensive studies that do not produce acceptable results
enforce all covenants fairly and timely
refuse to give in to a minority coalition that is looking to create new privileges and rewards for themselves
demand transparency in all procedures and policies in the HOA (nondisclosure allowed only instances of creating legal liabilities)
a wild one - create a fine for any member who fails to vote
create a website that is accessible and easy to tease out information
eliminate bonuses for employees who do not perform ABOVE reasonable standards
etc. etc. there are lots of good ideas out there that remain unheard due to a biased blog and a lack of transparency in managing the HOA
laughable and yes, sexist one - tell all the cranky old men members to mind their own business
I have to laugh at the comment about Steve and what has he done for the community. I have probably done more for the community as a volunteer than all the Board combined.
In all my working and retired life, I have never been treated with such disrespect than here. I have been lied to and about. I have never seen an organization that was so incompetent with zero skills to do anything.
The paying members deserve better. We could be a community that we are proud of, rather than ashamed.
"Clean and Green" Stop killing the trees.
I too will wait with great interest to see your response.
To 12:46
For a "biased" blog, you don't seem to mind commenting on it under "anonymous". Maybe you should make you suggestions on the WeakEnder or the Surfsider. Maybe at a Board meeting or the Annual meeting.
Been there, done that years ago. I'm more than a decade older than Mr. Cox so I don't feel compelled to burn up my energy at this late stage on the HOA.
I do hope the blog host realizes that it is irresponsible owners who are killing the trees. It is not the tree covenant, the tree committee or the members who file complaints about the trees. Fully enforcing the covenants leads to more responsible owners because there should be painful $$$ penalties for failing to be responsible. Why not deal with the actual tree problem instead of pissing and moaning about a tree covenant that could benefit from some revision to improve the fairness issues?
Leaving shore pines to grew and propagate naturally results in stands of trees growing too close together so that you eventually get a bunch of spindly, too tall trees that struggle to survive and blow over in high winds.
Imagine what Surfside could look like and be worth if all members were taking good care to maintain their lots for safety and attractiveness.
Dear 1:08
Exactly as expected: a snotty comment in response to some suggestions for improving Surfside. Atta boy. Keep up the good work to alienate your neighbors.
How does it compute that owners who oppose the Tree Policy would let ALL of the seedlings that pop-up, grow into a mini-forest ? Most folks have other plants in their landscape and remove unwanted seedlings as needed. You can create your own myth about this suppressive policy, as you apparently have, by ignoring the ugliness created by it.
The area with the most severe restrictions of 14 or 16 feet, have been the most impacted, with mutant looking trees barely alive. Many owners are opting to remove every tree standing, rather than spend time and money on frequent topping of dieing trees. This policy assures that this community will never gain significant property value.
The current mess of failed permitting on the CTP and other construction efforts at the Waterworks, and legal issues relating to failed management and mishandling of asbestos, strike another serious blow to resale values of Surfside properties. Realtors are required by law to divulge such details to prospective buyers.
If you think that realtors are telling prospective buyers that Surfside is not an effective or well managed HOA, you are delusional. You also appear to believe that trees need to be topped more than once to inhibit horizontal growth. No so! Look around Surfside and you will find a large number of lots left with zero maintenance which increases wildfire dangers and often creates an eyesore with invasive vegetation and unhealthy trees.
Factually, it is a matter of irresponsible lot owners who fail to respect the covenants that creates some of the problems in Surfside. The too many trees and unwanted vegetation will flourish in this climate unless regular maintenance is practiced. The ugliness of tree topping and unmaintained lots is not a matter of covenants or policies. It is a matter of irresponsible owners that should be held accountable.
My, someone as judgmental as you should probably be on the board! O wait, you probably are!
You have a board here that will not communicate with its members, goes off on its own with tangents costing thousands of dollars, and apparently stands responsible to no one.
Bitching about the trees is about as useful as criticizing the quality of the water being used while the barn is burning down.
If the energy that is expended on this blog about the trees was put to use taking better care of the trees Surfside would be a better community. Instead, we have a handful of people who want to eliminate the tree covenants so that they can avoid complying. The bitching is from those who can't find their way to comply with the rules as written when they bought their property. You bet I am judgmental about irresponsible and self serving HOA members. I want a community of responsible, friendly and decent folks who will always treat their neighbors well.
8:16.....How would I know what Realtors are "telling people" ? They are required by law to inform prospective buyers of active issues which are impacting the community's finances, and issues such as the EPA CRIMINAL investigation, that are likely to impact the on-going financial stability of the community.
They would be foolish to tell prospective owners that there are no problems with the management of the community, as that is false. ALL of the problems that have come to light in the last year are the result of failed management, and given the facts, prospective buyers and new members, will see that clearly.
And topping stalls vertical growth, not horizontal growth. Arborist warn never to top trees. What's their problem anyway ? Can't you talk sense into these over-educated fools ?
Thank you 12:44. I said horizontal to see if anyone would notice. tee hee You get a gold star.
Still reading what you want there Steve. The topic was about the posting on the SHOA website. Again, that was ALL I was commenting about. There are plenty comments concerning the problems here where they can be discussed. This, at first, wasn't but you insist on turning it into one and attacking me in the process..
Where in both of my comments did I ridicule the blog. Where did I defend the president. I said nothing that you accuse me of. You just felt the need to pick a fight for some reason along with repeating the same narrative you do on every topic. I even AGREED with something you said.
And "Stevie" was a lot nicer than what I would like to call you at this time.
I replied to exactly what was written. There are a lot of "anonymous" comments, so I don't know which gutless individual you are, or what the hell you're talking about. You're obsessed with your own importance, and I'm not impressed. Call me what you will. No reason I should give a damn.
The usual self serving garbage.
Be judgmental. It follows the philosophy of your Board buddies, and apparently falls in well with your personality. After all it should ALWAYS be you way.
Try playing another record - that one is broken.
"Not a Board Member" - a blatant falsehood. You're either a Board member or their troll. Which one?
Since you want to judge everyone on this blog, try judging this: you are a waste of space in this blog. Your superior attitude does neither required nor desired. Consider silence as an alternative.
Realtors are NOT required to say anything...as I said earlier, until something OFFICIAL is published all this crap about the board is just gossip. The lawyer has the entire BOT and office personnel clammed up, the EPA will not comment on pending litigation, all we have at this point is the L&I fine and stupid law suits filed by SHOA. The great cover-up continues...
The Chinook Observer did a large spread on the Asbestos issues and Federal Investigation about the first week in December. Front page, the headlining article. That does not constitute "gossip". So yes, Realtors ARE required to inform prospective buyers, and buyers are protected by law from being mislead. What Realtors choose to tell owners is a matter of individual integrity, so some may gamble that misrepresenting the situation won't be thrown back at them.
We have hard evidence that the president of the Board intentionally misrepresented the situation in his "State of the Community" remarks, front page of the Surf-in-Sider sent out the end of November. The president must sign-off on checks such as the ones he signed a couple of months prior to his written statement - L&I for $27,000, and $45,000 for Asbestos Abatement services. That is not heresay or "gossip".
The Architectural Comm. minutes recently stated that the permitting at the Waterworks which was found to be improper back in August, was only recently addressed by the HOA in response to violations cited, and there will be no decision made for months.
Will the half million dollar Plant be shut down entirely ? It requires a holding pond for proper flushing, but the Water Dept. had buried asbestos pipe UNDER the pond, and the Feds required it be dug-up and disposed of properly.
Water quality has already been impacted significantly, and the State has required much more frequent testing due to increased impurities in the water, due to worn-out Carbon that was to be replaced months ago, and a lack of proper maintenance as outlined by the manufacturer.
Misleading potential buyers in Surfside would be unwise, as the plot thickens quickly, and the BOT drags its' feet in finding solutions. There are MANY developing fronts, and they all are being addressed without public disclosure, with member funds, in the hundreds of thousands.
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