BE PREPARED.....By Larry Raymer
Surfside has a number of fire issues that are common for our coastal area, especially, Gorse and Dune grass. Unfortunately, they are highly combustible, along with other material.
HAZZARDS:
GORSE & SCOTCH BROOM...
These plants are easy to take care of...Cut them down and haul them away for disposal. There are chemicals that can be used on these plants to control them, but, they still need to be cut down and hauled away. These plants are extremely hard to control and they keep returning year after year even after application of chemicals.
DUNE GRASS:
Dune grass can be found West of F Street and G Street. This grass is highly flammable. Once it starts burning, it burns fast and hot.
SLASH PILES:
Slash piles consist of tree limbs and other vegetation awaiting proper disposal. Because of the nature of the material in the pile, they become a source for combustion.
The above are just some of the flammable materials that can be found in Surfside.
IN THE PAST....
In 2007, I worked with the fire department and Dept. of Natural Resources on potential fire hazards in Surfside. There was a report written on this that was submitted to Surfside, that identified areas within Surfside that needed special attention because of the fire hazard potential. There were a large number of slash piles. areas of dry grass and pine trees needing thinning. Working with Pacific County, a reduction of slash piles, noxious and invasive weeds were reduced. Surfside, working with members, together, made a positive improvement.
WHERE ARE WE TODAY?...
Due to violations of rules and regulations, The fire hazards are increasing in Surfside today. The chipping site at 350th and G Street has resulted in a high hazard slash pile. There are also other member owned slash piles in Surfside, that also present a fire hazard.
The chipping program is presented to the members as a Fire Wise program. If this was a Fire Wise program, all members would be allowed and encouraged to participate in the program. The "chipping" program is forced tree topping. A true Fire Wise program would include all burnable materials that can be found on your property, including an old can of paint or much more.
NEEDED TODAY:...
Starting in the middle of April, we should stop all tree topping until the middle of November. This would help reduce a potential fire hazard during the dry Summer months. We should be maintaining the dune grass to within 75 feet of your home. We need to cut down Gorse and Scotch Broom as well as eliminating slash piles. Haul all of these materials to Peninsula Sanitation and Landfill. Neighbors can help neighbors by offering to use your pickup to haul the stuff away. Peninsula Sanitation has the machinery to take care of it. We need to work with all the members to reduce all fire hazards in all areas of Surfside.
IN CONCLUSION:...
For the past 15 years, I have been an active member, serving on many committee's and a term as a Board member, working with the Fire Department, State Department of Natural Resources and Federal agencies and other experts in the field, both private and government. I have also worked with past and present Boards, General Managers, Business Managers and Compliance Officers as well as members, for a better fire prevention program. We have had some successes, and some failures. This can be a successful program with all members, Board and staff working together.
Larry Raymer
68 comments:
Thank you to Larry Raymer for the useful information. Much appreciated.
Have offered to haul and PAY the measly $20 for a neighbor burning slash. Was given the middle finger. >heavy sigh< Very few care.....
I asked a neighbor, who was burning tree debris for days and weeks on end why they didn't just haul it to the firewise station and be done with it. They said it was "faster" to burn it. ????? There's some real attitudes around here and no regard for neighbors or environment. Don't know the answer but see this as an uphill battle to say the least.
Your right about attitudes. Who can blame these people, we want to be left alone. The tree natzi started this crap. Stay out of our business
Thanks to Larry for his time spent in our community's behalf, and as always, his knowledge. His common sense approach has been invaluable to the community. Too bad neighbors have been hostile to any input. Though it shouldn't be surprising that tree maintenance and debris cleanup are issues that are tense.
We would think that getting more info out there would help. Policy and practices changes even more key.
Surfside is a tinderbox and is just one chainsaw or lawnmower spark away from serious widespread fire. The tree policy has created bitter hearts and opportunity for this fire danger. When it's all done and the fires are out, everyone will be sitting around scratching there heads, huh, why did this happen? Every dangerous situation has a solution and people exposing the danger, but rarely is anything done before the fact.
It will happen, just a matter of when.
Well the tree nazi's were not willing to work with anyone, then the chipper shut down. So yes, it's all sitting. It's not hurting anything laying on the ground, its all disposal material.
I see we gave the key to the chipper site to someone Saturday, who ground up debris there. Why not open it up early and the tree nazi can stand guard. Funny, I remember Kurt saying in a meeting, this was the most material he had seen at the chipper...duh! Your wife and crew should be proud
This fire wise chipping program is nothing but an excuse for destroying trees. I’ve never lived in an HOA that provided chipping services when you trimmed your trees or bushes! This was done by private businesses and paid for by the property owner. Surfside should not be running a business, especially when that service doesn’t pay for itself!
The very idea of us purchasing a chipper and being responsible for that entity makes me shudder.
I hear you Joanne! This is an example of why we need members input before we buy something.
It's so easy for 9 people to spend our money. We do not need our own chipper, and you are right, this is a business, which is not allowed in Surfside. Funny how all surfside owned properties are exempt from taxes too.
Large quantities of woodchips can spontaneously combust, and once started can be very difficult to extinguish.
Only certain types of woodchips are good for mulch and landscaping. Some actually damage plants.
The HOA is so obsessed with endless tree enforcement, they started chipping to help justify it all. But buying a chipper is very expensive, dangerous, and very late in coming, as much of the community has only dead remnants of trees.
Community money would be better spent ending the restrictions, paying members to cut down dieing trees and replant new ones. There are few varieties other than Shorepines that will grow here. Most varieties exceed Surfside restrictions. Some Dogwood varieties and other ornamentals max out at less than 20.ft., though they are generally difficult to grow in such poor soil and challenging climate.
Want to be left alone 6:27? Don't move into a HOA. And for someone who likes to throw out the "Nazi" label you really should be able to spell it correctly, otherwise it makes you look like an even bigger fool.
It's an added service that is used by members Joanne. You may not use it but many do. Kind of like a HOA handing out sandbags, something I will never use.
Anonymous 2:57. Hardly the same category! Having the ocean come onto your property is hardly the same as chopping down trees! It’s not an added service, but a good excuse to cut down trees. We’ve lived in other HOAs and hired professionals to do tree and bush trimming and cleaning up!
Well we got told when we needed sandbags that it was our problem, we bought that house! Guess it’s way more important to provide a service to people who are forced to cut down trees!
What about the members who do regular tree trimming to keep in compliance? Many members do use it for regular maintenance.
There are many services provided to members, but not all are used by all of the members but are paid for by the membership.
What Joanne did was ask an employee who's not responsible to fill sandbags to do it for them. If you're saying that all the employees are at your personal disposal to do work on your property you are wrong. It is my responsibility to maintain my property and to prepare my property for an emergency, not the staff of the HOA.
Maybe you should read their job descriptions before you go badmouthing the staff, makes you look bad, not them.
Ok anonymous 4’:24 were you on our property that morning? Then you know nothing of what was said! Ask our neighbor Bruce what was said! We certainly never asked them to fill up those bags. You want the truth, come talk to us! I sure don’t know where you’re getting this information but it’s a lie!
As I stated previously, I don’t think it’s the HOAs duty to provide chipping service!
SO they gave you the sandbags you asked for? The HOA provided you with the means to help maintain your property? Then why have you been complaining about not getting what you needed?
"Tree trimming" is different than topping, butchering, killing and cutting down. "Tree Trimming" is nothing more than more "Lipstick on a pig". Regardless of what the covenants say, what is being done to the trees is WRONG. It is also wrong to subject selected members to what amounts to harassment. The areas from I Place to G Street are known as the "harassment zone".
Anonymous 4:38. Have not been complaining about not getting “what I wanted”. Only about the very rude treatment we received when we were in shock and crisis mode!
No matter how much my staff or myself encountered mad, angry and frustrated customers, never ever did they ever receive the treatment we were given that day!
Until you identify yourself, shut up!
4:38....JoAnne and her husband are in their seventies, but still very vital and self-sufficient. Many members are well beyond retirement age, so I don't get why you are grinding on JoAnne for wanting and needing help with the King tides flooding onto her property.
She states that she needs the HOA to take some responsibility in responding to flooding conditions. That seems reasonable to me. That Gil and his crew were not geared to being supportive indicates that the community needs to gear-up and be prepared in coming years. We have rising sea levels, changing beach dynamics, and greater damage from King Tides in our future.
All communities have some responsibility to their more elder members, in emergency situations and instances of their distress. If you've got it all together like you claim, you would manage to show yourself to be more understanding and generous of spirit.
Thanks Steve! Actually Ron already 80 and I will be this summer😂.
The difference in your example Mr. Cox also applies to your handle it between neighbors approach to complaints. Yes, we need to take care of the elderly and some may believe it is a responsibility. However, it is not a requirement of the HOA and, if it were, would need to be budgeted for appropriately. It seems odd to me that there is an expectation for the HOA to address this flooding yet also complaints when providing a chipping site and area to help members comply with the covenants (except for the fact it is a covenant you and others here on this blog very vocally disagree with).
Same example above also applies to the folks complaining about the smoke from the burning on one hand but tell others to suck it up and quit complaining about campfire smoke or lights shining in their rooms. That is why there are covenants that folks should understand before buying - so they know what they are getting.
@2:55, yes I throw out the natzi label, because the shoe fits and piggy needs to wear it. The nazi's also need to cut their trees and remove overhang from neighbors. Calling kettle black. But I'm sure Peggy has a tree plan
Yeah, I get it - don't come to the HOA for help with anything - if you criticize the BOT.
Shut up, really? Nice attitude there. You're a fine one to be complaining about people being rude.
The chipping provides a service to members which many take advantage of ENCLUDING those on the east side of the ridge, so it's more than a reason for just "chopping down trees".
And to Ms. JoAnne and her White Knight. The issue wasn't her needing help, happy she got some. We were just responding to her wanting a service to go away that many use while getting help with HER issue that many don't need. But of course keep on going with turning it into something it's not.
Yes Surfside employee anonymous 2:02! It’s pretty hard to turn rudeness and ill manners into anything else.but go ahead with your rant and justifying the chipper!
There better never be a PAID HOA employee blogging here. I would expect that to be immediate grounds for dismissal.
The chipping station serves members in a community held hostage by the HOA Tree topping policy, which has become a spiteful obsessive drive to show dissenters who's boss in the community. This policy is toxic and needs to be eliminated.
Buying a chipper is yet another step to show the community the BOT's commitment to a future of intrusion on private property and micro-managing properties with trees.
We don't need to commit to this vision of Surfside's future, and have good reason to protest a policy that destroys the natural beauty of the landscape, and intimidates the members, refusing to even consider a different direction, more positive, for the community.
The Chipping program, stockpiles tree debris which has fire danger, and generates tons of woodchips, which leave the community property unusable. It is flamable for months, and is slow to break down, far too spongy for building anything. So many years will need to pass for the properties topped with several feet of woodchips to be marketable real estate or parks.
An earlier chipping program hauled all of the chips to the landfill. We would be better off to leave disposal to members, which would not be an issue if the Tree restrictions were eliminated.
Listen, I looked at the covenants before purchasing. I was fine with everything and happy with some of the covenants. But, and this is the BIG BUT, the HOA doesn't enforce the covenants in whole and absolute, they only enforce the ones they want to enforce as in trees and an occasional lighting issue! And oh no, not ALL lighting issues, just certain houses and there are string lights galore up all over this place and not the good ones. Same with trees, not ALL trees, just certain properties. And, the HOA doesn't honor past approvals or variances, and now want to back peddle on predecessors approvals.
There's only one hypocrite at this party and that's the current HOA BOT. If you can't see it, you as blind as a bat!
@3:15...is that in the covenents?? Anyone can comment on here. Is it selective enforcement if you don't like what is said? Tracy allows the SHOA BOT to comment on here. Kurt and his wife are some of the worst, as is committee member Pam Harris
Is Kurt and his wife or Pam Harris PAID by homeowners money? There's your answer, now get to work and hope I don't find out who you are. Oh and btw, Tracy doesn't supervise BOT. Stay in your lane and do your job. You are walking a very dangerous line. Do your trolling outside of your workplace. Just shows you have a lot of growing up to do. Which btw is one indicator of who you might be. Keep talking, immature people always give themselves away and this is a very tiny little community.
There are 9 Trustees who make community decisions. All of this assasination of 3 or 4 Board members is out to lunch. Striking a threatening tone to people you don't know personally is risky and presumptive. You only imagine who has done what behind the scenes.
It is best to base theories of blame and misdeeds strictly on what you know for a fact. Best to dial back the hostility.
The walls have ears and if one other person knows, then 10 more will know soon.
STOP this dastardly HOA-
RCWs > Title 23 > Chapter 23.86 > Section 23.86.250
23.86.230 << 23.86.250 >> 23.86.310
RCW 23.86.250
Dissolution.
The members of any association may by the vote of two-thirds of the members voting thereon, at any regular meeting or at any special meeting called for that purpose, vote to dissolve said association after notice of the proposed dissolution has been given to all members entitled to vote thereon, in the manner provided by the bylaws, and thereupon such proceeding shall be had for the dissolution of said association as is provided by law for the dissolution of corporations organized under chapter 24.06 RCW: PROVIDED, That if the total vote upon the proposed dissolution shall be less than twenty-five percent of the total membership of the association, the dissolution shall not be approved. At the meeting, members may vote upon the proposed dissolution in person, or by written proxy, or by mailed ballot.
[ 1981 c 297 § 36.]
Can't we please,please,please, ban the burning of tree and yard debris? Having to sell a house because of this excessive practice seems unreasonable. Many people can't breath. I don't even care if we pay for it just please, I beg of you please stop this excessive smoke. Use the $200 fee for violation check when selling to contract pick up for dumping, I really don't care just anything besides this toxic smoke, please help. The HOA office doesn't care and admit it's a problem but do nothing and we can't breathe, oh my..please stop
Can we please please please stop the trimming/butchering of trees. I can't stand to drive around here anymore. It's a disaster. Ugly!
The hoa or office does not care
Stop trimming/butchering our trees!
We live in Stumpside. We are an embarrassment!
So you want to ban burning in firepits at the beach? Oh I'm sure all of the members will jump right on that idea. Who would drive around and make sure no one is having fires? How are you going to tell all the vacationers that they cant have fires in their firepits? There is no way the membership would agree to never having fires in Surfside, no tree topping yes, no fires no way
Unfortunately, tree topping requirements generate a lot of material that needs to be disposed of. But it needs to be taken to the Pacific Disposal site or the chipper site.
Some residents seem to think it's okay to burn green wood, as well as driftwood, in firepits or burn barrels. I get the indignant attitude, a ridiculous policy drives this madness. But it doesn't take much burning to create a miserable condition for the whole community.
I realize it's a complicated scenario to manage, but it might help to sell firewood to members on scheduled weekend hours. Unfortunately, many people think you just forage for wood when camping.
I've often encountered folks in campgrounds that have a bunch of rotten wood and driftwood, but need to borrow an ax. Neither axes or firewood are expensive, and are a necessary investment for camping/RVing.
But I appreciate the importance of the campfire to enjoying such trips to the mts. & beach.
Embarrassment? Maybe in your mind. But in the real world Surfside along with Seaview is the hottest market for homes on the peninsula. So apparently many people don't share your opinion.
And to the firepit "issue". So you moved into an area that has RV properties and you didn't expect outdoor fires? Once again, that is on you. You made a bad choice and expect the rest of us to change to YOUR liking.
Good grief ! The purpose of having an HOA is to set standards that have a practical objective, and to help mediate conflicts between members. Everyone in the community is entitled to have their concerns heard and if possible, a remedy worked out.
That's where fussing over trees inches taller than the restricted standard, is a waste of time, money, and general goodwill. Overall, most folks can get along and find compromises on other issues, that don't require a lazer measuring device.
There is a big difference in slash pile/garbage burning and a small fire pit burning.
I personally went out and purchased my own wood chipper to get rid of my trimmings. I have a small fire pit but very seldom use it.
I do agree that the HOA shouldn't be running this service or purchasing unnecessary items without a vote from all members.
I know for a fact Scott used to comment on this blog. He was very rude and abrasive, to say the least. I'm very glad he is long gone!
If the lighting covenent can go before the members, so can the tree heights. Get rid of it all together
I think we’re way past due of having the board sit down and have a serious discussion about this tree covenant! Our west side is slowly but surely being destroyed
Views are NOT protected in Surfside.
In fact, it's illegal according to WA state law.
There is a prescribed means for proposing covenant changes. The Lighting proposal from Jan. 2020 was not dropped or significantly revised as the Trustees present at the Review indicated it would. The new proposal from the Arch.Comm./BOT is very much the same as the one rejected by members in 2020.Rather than specify what fixtures are compliant, the new covenant would just give the HOA full authority to tell members what's acceptible and what is not. This version of the propsed cov. change is worse than the first one.
Members only have an advisory role according to our covenants, which is not the case in 90% of the HOAs in the country.
Hitler peggy and sidekick Kurt to blame
We need a new board before that's even going to be logical
Who is running for the board?? I know Gary and Mark are running again, do we have anyone to vote for??
That's a good question? I am fairly new to surfside and my question is does the members vote on the new or old board members who are running for a seat?
To 9:34, explain this.
The Condo owners north of Oysterville road are not allowed to plant trees west of the building. It is in their rules. So it appears your "facts" aren't factual.
Yes 6:46, you do get to vote for board members. But according to some of the yahoo's here it's fixed by the J place faction so do as you please.
The community "rules" are online on the Surfside site.
We want Gary out this year and Kurt out next year
To the people who are having trouble with the smoke related to brush burning. This is NOT allowed!!!!! Here is what the burn permit says.
"If the fire creates a nuisance and/or health hazard, it must be
extinguished."
Call Pacific County Fire District #1 (360) 665-4451 and they will come out and have the person in attendance extinguish it. Everyone experiencing this smoke must do this so people will stop burning green vegetation. The brush does not need to be burned. We are paying for a chipper to avoid burning.
@5:34, If I want to burn my branches that I am now being fined for, I will do so. Even if I do it at night. Its my right, its my property. Come find me, I dare you.
@10:00pm
The burn permit also states....."Burning shall be conducted only during daylight hours, and only on calm days with little or no wind."
Pacific County Fire District will definitely find you if someone reports it. I hope for your sake you have a signed burn permit in your possession when they do.
Are you required to have a burn permit when burning in a fire pit?
You do NOT need a burn permit for a recreational CAMPFIRE.
You DO need a burn permit to burn brush.
https://pcfd1.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/BURN-PERMIT-2022.pdf
No! Recreational fires 3×3 are allowed, in a fire pit
BEFORE BURNING, PLEASE CALL 360-665-3508 TO CONFIRM IF IT IS A BURN DAY
This includes recreational campfires.
We have had the big red truck roll up to our property twice.
The first time we were burning brush. This was at a time before the chipper site existed. As we all know brush burning creates a lot of smoke and we were asked to extinguish the pile. Fortunately we had rakes, hoses, and fire extinguishers readily available for the inspection. We were not cited but we were asked to present the signed permit.
The second time we had a campfire going (during daylight hours) and had a bunch of kids cooking hot dogs and smores. Unfortunately, it was a NO burn day, including NO campfires. OOPS! We didn't call the number first. Again we were not cited, but were asked to put the fire out. NO campfires is rare but it does happen in the summer so just be alert to that fact.
You're an idiot. You are a member of a community of about 4000 members/2050 households. There are responsibilities that go with it. Haul your branches to the dump. Green branches don't really even burn so gas gets used putting other cancer-causing chemicals into the air from combustion.
Thank you!
Why does Surfside allow brush burning? Even though it is allowed by Pacific County, can't Surfside prohibit it? Now that we have a chipper site it's really not necessary anymore.
3:24
Outdoor burning of land clearing debris or construction debris is prohibited.
Small (3 foot x 3 foot) campfires, cooking fires, and natural yard debris
fires are permitted provided they meet the criteria for such uses adopted
by the Pacific County Fire District #1, and meet the requirements of
Section 5.8.
From the CC & R's
It is necessary, as the chipper shuts down after labor day until end of May.
This chipper site is a business and it continues to fill this residential lot. Businesses are not allowed in Surfside
A business? no money is made on that place. The small amount of donations dont even cover the cost they accrue for having it, so they're definitely not making money on that.
Business's are allowed in Surfside. There is a mini storage, a mini mart, a condo so yes there are business' allowed
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