April Meeting Minutes
Note: Committee meeting minutes can be found on the "official" web site, but members can not openly discuss their thoughts on the actions of those involved. This blog offers a venue for discussion as a service to members...
Minutes Fish & Waterways Committee meeting April 12, 2021
Present – on Phone call in -
In Office – Larry Raymer, Steve Flickinger, Rudd Turner, Tracy Lofstrom
The meeting was called to order at 1:05 pm
Larry came from a member on 320th observing an oil type sheen on drainage waters from Deer Lake – appeared to be from decomposing subsurface tree leaves.
Agenda for F&W meeting Monday April 12th 1pm
Fish
Fishing Derby – Delayed from Memorial Day Weekend until July 4th weekend; depending if state WA still in Phase 3 covid re-opening; if Pacific County falls back to Phase 2, then no kids fishing Derby in 2021 (Labor Day week-end was thought to be too late).
No fishing extended from March, April, May, extended through June to July 4th.
Planting Fish – June Stock 9-11” and 11-13” trout to the Canal and Seabreeze Lake, also some to Twin Lake, and Deer Lake.
Water Testing – Steve contacted/emailed WDFW Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife district Biologist in Fish Program; did not hear back. Steve expressed desire to assign to someone else as he is busy with projects on plant list, riparian buffer, and blue-green algae.
Prior to starting Agenda items 3 to 5, Steve expressed since the last meeting – what can F&W do about Larry’s and others observations of vegetation removal/clearing in riparian 25’ buffer down to waters edge (in violation of CARL Pacific County Ordinance #180). Rudd suggested education (Steve suggested a mailer to those members lots on the water). Tracy thought have a workshop hosting representatives from Pacific County CDC Community Development and three committees – Tree, F&W, Lands, and also any other interested SHOA members – so we all hear the same thing.
Riparian Zone -
Report – Steve reported on he and Linda progress on a Plant List for Surfside will take many months. In the meantime, a one page
“Plants for Surfside Community with Links 3-28-2021.docx” document was presented (attached). It was agreed by all to put it in the Weekender, and make available to Members.
Surfside Covenants were discussed
5.5 …..ground surface cover must be re-established…..to prevent erosion. {this applies to all lots in Surfside}
5.6 …..must maintain the banks & plantings…….
5.11 Environmental pollution shall not be allowed. ……
5.11a Whenever Surfside becomes aware of a violation of environmental laws or regulations {CARL Pacific County Ordinance #180}, …… it shall refer the alleged violation to the appropriate local, county, regional, state, or federal agency.
3.3 Charters of Committees – found in Operations Manual revised 10-17-2020 – were reviewed. Tree, Shrub, Noxious Weeds – Page 78
Fish & Waterways – Page 97
Land & Buildings – Page 103
Tree Height violations in Riparian Area – Steve observed 3 neighbors, all on the water/Seabreeze Lake, that received Tree height violation compliance letters, they wanted to cut their trees down to the ground – I told them that was in violation of CARL – they said they did not know that. I printed out the CARL flier and gave it to them – telling them that they could limb up, and trim/top their trees to SHOA tree height covenant, but they could Not cut the trees or shrubs down to the ground or remove/clear vegetation. I recommend that all Tree height violation compliance letters that are sent out to members lots on the water, also have a CARL / Riparian flier included.
CARL Critical Areas and Resource Land – Pacific County Ordinance 180.
Primer – Highlights for Surfside
Was postponed until the next meeting – we ran out of time.
The meeting was adjourned at 3:20 pm.
The next F & W meeting will be Friday May 28, 2021 1pm
Submitted by Steve Flickinger, to Larry Raymer, Co-Chair
41 comments:
Sorry, the posting is small printed. Thanks to Steve for the minutes which are very informative information for members. It is refreshing to see members working in the best interest for all members. A job well done...
Thanks Larry Raymer!
Item 4, Thanks Steve Flickinger!
I’d say the board member on this committee needs to report back to the BOT and advise for an immediate stop on the tree complaints. We should not be putting our members in a position of not following county rules or CARL regulations!
All we need is one win in small claims court and the tree policy is over.
I can't wait.
I too cannot wait!
When we get a few new board members we will start accomplishing things
If I as an individual want to fish starting June 1, I will do so. Stop the ridiculous restrictions. Fishing is outdoors and I'm on my own property
I will fish when I want. I will burn yard debris when I want. I will maintain my trees per the governing documents. I will buy IDA exterior lights. Come try to fine me and put a lien against my property.
And keep it as untidy as I want
Am I the only one who noticed the recommendation to call the feds on our neighbors for suspected environmental violations? What kind of a jack a$$ would turn his neighbor into the authorities because they suspect they have done something inappropriate. Is that what we have become? Be sure and mention that in the welcome sack.
Go ahead and fish when not supposed to (it's your illness), go ahead and burn when you want to (it's your ticket from the Fire Marshall, we do have burn bans ya know), go ahead and cut your trees (you are making your property ugly for some elitist but hey go for it), and put up any lights you want (turn them on, turn them off, no one really cares but one or two guys around here).
P.S. You legally can fish June 1st. The canal is full of funk March, April, May, but hey, Just do it! I'm sure you still have a stock of Covid TP.
Some people just weren't raised right.
Did you by chance read the flyer posted at your door by Eradipest if you live on the canal? No problem with fishing, swimming, pets, or just enjoying the waterways. DUH, watched them last year in a small boat powered by an electric trolling motor going up and down the canal throwing handfuls of what I don’t know. As the wind blew the dust back in their face with not even a mask or gloves on, and we are paying this company $13k to apply their stuff?
Do we really know what is being applied?
What Trustee is getting a kickback?
Did we really pay for the road repair on I street @ 320?
You got that right, I can name a few around here
The tree committee would turn anyone in, yes that is what we have become
Hmmm.... we have a company we are paying 13,000 to treat our waters and we allow a motor boat. No motors of any kind are allowed, so we are all told. Interesting, its again selective enforcement
Using an electric motor to spread chemicals as a contractor isn't really the same as mutiple crafts buzzing around the same lake. The water treatment is for milfoul which easily chokes small lakes and ponds and makes them unfishable. Probably an herbacide and not good to breathe the dust.
I believe this year so far has been the worst individual slash burning seen since living here in Surfside. You can thank the HOA compliance and their oh so thoughtful letters and the negligence of not having their "shredding" business open yet. People are just trying to comply and it's nerve racking to get that certified letter asking for compliance.
The good news is my house value has jumped $70,000 in the past two years. If selling is the only way to get away from this boondoggle, at least there's some some cash for the wallet.
Abolish this dastardly HOA!
Steve, I suspect those comments are just trolls trying to keep everyone riled up. There's a saying "Don't feed the trolls" Their only intention is to cause strife and dissension.
Best to ignore them or delete their comments ASAP
Best indicator of trolling behavior is usually one or two liners meant to cause a conscientious person to become unsettled or upset. I see a couple more troll comments at April 30, 2021 at 5:19 PM and at April 30, 2021 at 7:04 PM.
5:19 is so contradictory its obviously a troll. Follows some HOA rules but won't follow others? Look at it, it's everything this group is troubled by.
You are spot on with troll identifiers. Only a matter of time for them to come back on here with some dumb one liner declaring they are not a troll but nothing else to add except bad blood. I had a couple trolls online admit they were just doing it for money back in early 2020. It's a real thing.
sorry for going off topic --
Apparently a bunch of stuff got deleted after I responded to a stupid comment. I didn't see the stuff. I don't try to second guess most comments that seem foolish. People say and do amazingly stupid stuff - like Biden isn't president, dems drink human blood,.. Making fake comments on a blog, wow what big fun. Idiots galore.
The goal is to cause so much bickering the blog becomes irrelevant to the reasonable person, therefore decreasing input and ideas/experiences. There must be something to some of the "real" comments on here or why would someone spend time trolling? I suspect some people are worried about something.
I bet there's someone worried. There are more people who have been told to cut their trees than people who want the trees cut. Let the tree killers hire the lawyers and sue the HOA. Or better yet move......
Everyone should just burn those stupid letters instead of tree debris.
I suggest that all who have received compliance letters read Surfside Bylaw Article IX, Section 1: Charges and Assessments shall be levied at a uniform rate per member or lot, without destinction or preference of any kind.
I don't see how the Tree Restrictions aren't a violation of this bylaw. About 75% of the community is forced to comply to mandatory tree topping at the members expense, for the sake of about 200 ridgetop properties who have an UNWRITTEN privilege.
The HOA demands about 75% of member households pay for HOA mandated maintenance or be fined and taken to Court. Maintenance costs these members at least half of our assessments and dues ($300) on up to $1000 Annually or biannually.
The HOA isn't going anywhere so I suggest you either accept that fact or take 2:54's advice and move. Of course it also brings up the obvious question, why did you move here in the first place?
Also a reminder, it isn't just the ridge owners who are for the tree covenants, no matter who says otherwise. I had to deal with a neighbors tree issues when I lived in Seattle and didn't want to put up with it in my retirement years. It also didn't make sense to me to have tall trees in a high wind storm area. That's why when we chose to live here I didn't buy my house on the east side or elsewhere on the peninsula. That's also why I'm happy living here.
Meanwhile you have others who did the opposite and spend their days complaining, all because of the poor choice THEY made that they don't want to accept responsibility for.
I'm not buying it 8:19. You expect us to believe you were so savvy before moving here from Seattle and knew the landscape as if you lived here your entire life so knew how to make just the right smart purchase and everyone else just made bad choices. You are full of yourself and are part of the small minority of tree haters. Go pound sand.............
"That's why when we chose to live here I didn't buy my house on the east side or elsewhere on the peninsula. That's also why I'm happy living here."
This sentence sounds as if you don't live here at all therefore probably it is YOU who should be minding there own business. So, what is it? Do you live on the Pen or not? Do you live in Surfside or not? Why are you commenting here if you don't? Talk about spending the days complaining? You look like the epitome of hypocrite.
HOAs are required in many urban areas because they help take the pressure off of the municipal police and other services. Most HOAs reitterate city ordinances in their covenants.
But HOAs are only a small piece of what makes a nice community, and it's absurd to suggest that people shopping for property should look to a community's covenants as their first priority.
Looking for a new house would cease to be fun. The first priority is finding a property that fits your needs, price point, and FEELS right.
Many communities are saddled with awkward or controversial covenants that have been put in place by the developer to aid in selling properties. Any given standard or covenant can become a burden over time, and that's why, nearly all HOAs have covenants that prescribe the process to change covenants.
The Tree restrictions are about 40 years old, and would not have played much of a role for about 10 to 15 years after the rule was put in place. The seedlings of pine trees were planted after the community had been trying to sell properties unsuccessfully. No trees meant constant blowing sand on the re-landscaped westside. So trees were planted.
Ironically, 35 years later, the HOA began furiously destroying the trees with enforcement of archaic standards. Like I mentioned, the community rules intend to have all members treated fairly and equitably, and about 3/4 of the member households are forced to top trees for the sake of about 200 ridgetop homes.
Rules must change with the times, and are just human constructs. Humans are fallible, and ideas that seem good on paper are not necessarily good in practice-or legal. So shut up about the "you knew what the rules were" crap. New owners expect a large community should have practical standards that do not piss-off 75% of the membership because they are intrusive and burdensome.
One tree helps soak up 40 gallons of water. Look at what a disaster peggy olds and crew have created. I guess we should put in more drainage because the water is coming.
The group is troubled by you Mike. Another J pl troll. Stay in Seattle where you belong
If you consider "savvy" reading the covenants BEFORE buying here than I'm guilty as charged. And btw, unlike you and a small minority, the majority here made the the right choice also. Since as I said I'm happy with my purchase it WAS a smart one. I would say that I'm sorry that you're not, but given the pound sand comment I will now find some enjoyment in the fact you don't. So feel free to continue with the insults and complaining since I guess that at least gives you some enjoyment.
To 9:41. How you could make the assumption that I don't live here from what you quoted doesn't make sense. So you not only look like a fool, you are.
Shut up? real nice. Typical response to a statement you don't like that points out the mistake some have made. But look at the bright side. It gave you chance for another "therapy session" with your long winded response. So you're welcome.
If it's just one or two trees, there isn't anything illegal (covenants and county) in topping them down to three or four feet above ground and putting a statue on the stump. It would act as a pedestal. You'd never have to top it again, and your not removing it......problem solved
@May 3, 2021 at 9:00 AM
Well if you're so happy then go be happy. Why are you here rubbing people's nose in things. You are not a nice person, at all, and obviously lack empathy.
You also lack the ability to see that "YOU" wrote the sentence which is lacking in certainty, the person was just calling it out. If you don't want any misinterpretation on your comments, learn better sentence structure. Things in para thesis is a quote from other's posts. So I guess the fool is you, hope you like those eggs.
The only "smart" purchase in Surfside is the values have climbed exponentially, which means we can all get away from jerks like you with some money in our pocket.
Oh yeah and I second what Steve said "Shut up"
Nothing you said here makes any sense, you're so busy being "clever/snarky". Having a dialogue about what is broken in our HOA, doesn't make us unhappy people. I'm not oblivious to what works and what doesn't, and nothing gets better unless something is done to change the workings of the HOA that work cross-purposes with most member's happiness.
Screwed-up enforcement guidelines are destructive to member happiness in HOAs. The internet has thousands of examples from all across the country.
Property values have increased accross the board, and has nothing to do with how flawless you may think the Surfside HOA is.
As was pointed out somewhere here, trees absorb a huge amount of water, and help provide drainage. So the tree destruction has some hidden consequences.
There are subtle aspects of the language in documents such as our docs that don't jump right out at you, and are easy to overlook. To pretend that anyone with a gripe about the HOA or covenants are fools, may make you feel smug, but you aren't qualified to judge - and you're too lazy to think for yourself.
I third what Steve said, "Shut up."
Steve should have been appointed to the board when Chandler resigned. Gary Williams knows it. Gary Williams is ignorant and sucks up to the J Placers.
I too agree with Steve. Kurt does not belong on that board. The tree committee could volunteer at the chipper so it can open early. We all have stuff on the ground
Steve ? Not me. I don't make pronouncements about Board members or candidates. You didn't read or hear such a thing connected with me. You agree with what I don't know.
Then leave 11:11 am and let someone who wants to live here move in.
Lacking in certainty, really? Exactly what part of "That's why when we CHOSE TO LIVE HERE...." is hard for you or any person with an oz of common sense don't understand?
And again, Olds got elected to the board, deal with it.
Tree Height violations in Riparian Area – Steve observed 3 neighbors, all on the water/Seabreeze Lake, that received Tree height violation compliance letters, they wanted to cut their trees down to the ground – I told them that was in violation of CARL – they said they did not know that. I printed out the CARL flier and gave it to them – telling them that they could limb up, and trim/top their trees to SHOA tree height covenant, but they could Not cut the trees or shrubs down to the ground or remove/clear vegetation. I recommend that all Tree height violation compliance letters that are sent out to members lots on the water, also have a CARL / Riparian flier included.
*******If trees are limbed up and trim/topped to tree height covenant the trees are DEAD.********
Can someone explain how DEAD trees are compliant with CARL but STUMPS are not. What's the difference. DEAD is DEAD.
95 % of us come here for piece and quiet and relax. 5% live here to drive around and create chaos and lick their spoons
Watch out for the olds and the Harris's. I've caught them many times slowly passing by. No reason for them to be on my street. Just looking for trouble
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