WHAT WILL IT TAKE?
It is apparent that many members are not happy with this HOA. What will it take before members say"enough"? Perhaps all the ew tree complaints will push the members over the edge to action. The continued waste of money may open the eyes of some members. Maybe, after spending millions of dollars, we still have a second rate water system.
We probably have the most unqualified Board, that we ever have had. On addition to that, it is full of "conflict of interest". Yet it continues. The majority, if not all, the Board members do not have their own property in compliance with the covenants. Yet they sit in judgement of other members. It may end up that ythe State wuill finally step in and do something, but by then it will be to late.
We need a qualified Board that will represent the members. I see that as our only hope, if we are to continue as an HOA. I can only hope.
63 comments:
Get out of here as fast as you can, while property values are relatively decent.
A good start would be to get rid of Wiliams, Olds and Clancy.
New to the area and so far I am not happy with the HOA here! The only way to change anything is to take the Bull by the horns and jump in, So that is what I am choosing to do! I have many questions to ask so please bare with me on this...
1) When does the members elect new officials?
2) When are audit reports made public to members?
3) Setting up and or Term lengths?
4) Non Paid positions?
5) List of all Paid positions?
6) All employee Wages?
7) All expenses by anyone who is using HOA money (name of person, amount and what for)?
This would be a great start on targeting and to focus on a plan. Most people only look at a audit of Money and where it is, being used for and what comes in. But almost always no one will question where that T.V. went that was purchased last year or why are we paying so much in fuel charges for John, Mary or Pete to fill up his or her car for work when the average person who has a job doesn't get Costco to fill their car for them to work their.
This HOA takes in a lot of money and I believe there is waste to be cut!
Go to surfsideonline.org This is the official site that contains all the governing documents, budget, etc. Board and committee minutes are posted. The operations manual explains all paid positions and committee charters.
Good advice George! That’s exactly where I did all my research into the history off Surfside. Also be sure you have a paper copy of the By-laws, Articles of Incorporation and the Restrictive Covenants. Much easier to read, mark and retain when on paper. It’s good to reach out to others to find out their views and experiences! Good luck!
Forgot to mention the "employee manual". It contains the employee wage range. Most are at the rop of the scale.
Good to know, Thank you!
I am only a party of one but if we can come together and pull all our knowledge we can turn this around!
I also wanted to say thank you for having me!
How is it apparent that many members are not happy with this HOA? It is impossible to please all of the people all of the time but it is possible to please most of the people most of the time. Other than this blog it is really hard to find a discouraging word here on the range. I disagree with your assertion that many members are not happy with this HOA. I would characterize our neighborhood as mostly content with the status quo. It is true that some people are unhappy but generally speaking there is always a minority of people who are unhappy regardless of current conditions. Life is good here and the complaints I read on this blog seem to be petty and few. Harping on the same few complaints for years on end does not legitimize those complaints. In fact, after years of harping about the same complaints on this blog not more than a handful of members are agreeing with you. Gotta admire your persistence, a reasonable person would have given up long ago. It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Keep up the good fight.
3:32, ever heard "ignorance is bliss"? If you want too be happy and keep your sanity, i would heed that statement. You really should have done more research. Wish i had🤦🏼♂️
6:46...Discontent expressed on the Blog is repetitive because the main issues are not concerns of the BOT, consistently a group of folks who want to maintain the status-quo. Wasteful spending and the need to eliminate the Tree policy dominate the discontent expressed, consistently dismissed as issues that need NO reform. The Blog has been discussing the extreme challenge to the membership preventing reform of the Tree policy, and addressing wasteful spending, including failure to abide by State and County ordinances. Surfside has paid into 6 figures in fines and penalties by failing to keep all Trustees accountable to the membership and common sense, all within the last 2 to 3 years.
646 - "for evil to prevail, good men need do nothing".
So which are you? Do nothing or consciously evil?
Life IS good here, except for a crooked HOA, filled with greed and self interest. Keep supporting that.
One thing is certain, nobody is doing anything. For evil to prevail evil must exist. As I said, I find the complaints I read on this blog petty not the result of evil just the musings of discontent people who have no business living in an HOA.
Go to Patrick's blog.
The discontent expressed here is far from "petty". Wasteful spending, refusal to be fully transparent about excessive legal spending, refusal to be responsive to member calls for more member participation in how our HOA functions and updates/reforms covenants and policy - is not "petty", but central to how our community is run, and in the longrun, member happiness. Tens of thousands of dollars are wasted topping and trimming trees on HOA demand. It serves no practical purpose at great expense to members who are victimized by this policy.
Personally, I think it's important for the members to have an avenue for dialogue with the HOA board, and that is not currently the case. While following a pandemic protocol is appropriate, the board has not been faithfully responding to member comments and concerns. Given the opportunity to shut the members out, they have been doing so. How do we fix that, with Covid sure to continue as a factor with open meetings, required by law? Efforts to broadcast the meetings are intended to address that, so we are not dealing with "evil" in this dynamic, and I think comments that put this on that level are exaggerations, and counter-productive. Criticism of our management, community rules amd enforcement is essential to any representative governance. So neither the governed nor the HOA board should demonize one another if any dialogue is to be had.
Petty complaints are all I hear. You try really hard to make mountains out of molehills but in the end your complaints are not near as egregious as you make them out to be. One example, when is the EPA going to arrest board members and fine Surfside hundreds of thousand dollars as claimed by contributors to this blog? Your complaints are exaggerated and when the truth is revealed, you just move on to new complaints or dig up old ones. Get real, stop using sensationalism and bias when discussing Surfside issues. You attempts to influence members is an utter failure. All you have left to loose is your reputations.
12:37PM, You have your head in the sand !!
12:37....You are obviously not interested in having a reasonable discussion. You are incapable of grasping that all of the commenters have their own take on S.S. issues, and we don't all live in the same house, let alone know who has made anonymous comments. What some anonymous person predicted about stuff that happened 3 years ago is not of any significance. The HOA paid out well over $100,000 in the course of resolving the Asbestos Abatement and Wetlands Mitigation. The mitigation could have resulted in State penalties of approx.$80,000, but hired an attorney who specialized in wetland mitigation matters, and we lucked out, the penalty only $12,000. 3 years of attorney fees and other fines added considerably more expense. Nothimg at issue is petty or insignificant. You are welcome to kiss the asses of Trustees, but you don't have the courage to stand up for the rights of Surfside members, taken advantage of by biased B. Members and their special interest friends.
My head is in the sand? Is that all you have to say? You can discredit me out of hand but don’t you think addressing my arguments would be more compelling to your cause. Please tell me, where is the long arm of the EPA? Surely by now they have closed their investigation. Could it be that it wasn’t as egregious an infraction as some of you made it out to be? I have not read about any arrests. I have not seen any headlines about fines. Apparently the EPA determined no actionable infraction was committed. All that expense on lawyers was a result of a vindictive employee or member or both making phone calls and sensationalizing a situation to get an investigation started. How many other things have been sensationalized on this blog that are really not that big a deal?
To say your head's in the sand is generous.
Perfect example of sensationalizing. Could of, should of, would of. Please tell me how you know what you think you know? Or is it you just think you know. The view is always good fro the armchair.
The information is all public record, but has been minimized and denied by those who the BOT serves - themselves and Tree policy devotees, you. It took nearly 3 years to settle the Wetlands violations, and as long to get a final verdict from the EPA. Trump admin. Immediately stripped the EPA of influence and funding, with all of the Asbestos violations coming to light shortly after. All we know is that once referred to the EPA, interviews were done of all S.S. employees, and nothing more was ever heard from them. The BOT needlessly challenged 2 members in Superior Court, withdrawing their case just before the Court date. The HOA pissed away another huge chunk of member funds, thought to be around $100,000, on the Shed-roof fiasco, paying everyone's legal fees - all around the same time. This info has been out there, openly exposed on the Blog, and avoided by the HOA.
1210 - what i know is yet another Boil Water notice. More of them in the last 6 months than 45 years living in Bull Run Reservoir area, Portland.
Is it sensationalism to say that water is the most valuable resource that the association provides for us? Is it sensationalist to say that in the last 10 years quality and reliability have decreased considerably.
To provide reliable Services, leadership must start at the top. Ours is inept, amoral, and buried in self-interest. They pay more attention to their views than the quality of the water for all of us.
Is it any coincidence that the degradation started right around the time that Gary Williams first took office? I think not.
There were fines of about $25,000 (I'm unsure of the exact amount, about 2 yrs. Ago) and Asbestos abatement costs of about $45,000. Again, public record, but kept quiet by the HOA. Forget the haughty attitude. It's just the facts, so deal with it. It's in the rear view mirror at this point.
Thankfully Clancy spent funds on that water truck. See how he was being altruistic and looking out for everyone's well being?
I have a question! It’s been stated that the reason we have so many water problems and boil water notices is because of the age of the pipe and the sand. If this is the case then why aren’t Ocean Park and Long Beach having the same problems? We all live on the same sand pile!
What is your point? Of course a mistake was made and costs were incurred to correct the mistake. I was not disputing that or discussing that. It looks like the board is not the only ones who find it difficult to admit they were wrong. If only you were as generous with their mistakes as you are with your own. I know this is in your rear view mirror, at least until it becomes convenient for you to bring it up, but the consensus on this blog about the asbestos debacle was that the EPA was going to arrest board members and fine Surfside hundreds of thousands of dollars. Neither of those things happened. Why did neither of those things happen. Because, contrary to the sensationalized reports of the scope, extent, and egregiousness of the mistake, the EPA determined the infraction to be not large, not life threatening, not actionable, not that big of a deal. And yet, no one on this blog has admitted they mistakenly overstated the gravity of the infraction and were wrong about the inevitable outcome of the investigation. Is this kind of behavior exactly what you are accusing the board of? Instead of admitting you were wrong you decide to blame it on Trump, without a single spread of evidence to back it up. Maybe this rainy La Niña season is Trump’s fault. Maybe...
How are those water main breaks going Surfside?
Oh well, at least you have a water truck.
Wish I had also. But yes, there are a lot of people that don't want to know. Don't want to get involved. I have heard of the board going after persistent complainers. With most of our population being part timers, they don't care. They come for the summer and just want to relax,have fun and not worry about anything.
849 - its a race to see who is worse, Clancy or Williams. Both will leave a stain, not a legacy.
To answer your question George, change will only come when members stop talking and start acting. We all know only 200-300 people vote so more action is needed to invoke the change wanted. The other question you should ask is why aren't the members on here creating that action? There is so much passion but that really means nothing if no one is willing to step up
813 - the only thing Trump will be remembered for is as a traitor.
Quit with the gaslighting - its only shows your true character.
That or as these fossils pass on. Most of them don't look to be the healthies.
As was pointed out, commenters on the blog are nearly all anonymous, and there IS no organized group with a single line of opinion such as you insist exists. The fact that the EPA didn't march into Surfside and make arrests is not a surprise to most rational members. This was never a likely scenario, but the attitude that the management failure was insignificant is exactly the errogant dismissive attitude that got the HOA into these messes. There was around $200,000 pissed away on fines, clean-up, and staff projects associated with digging-up buried pipe, and excavating for drains around the new Equip.Storage, and of course attorney fees, including the hiring of the South Bend mitigation attorney. You must be a B. member by the lack of conscience.
What has happened-happened, get beyond it! What can we do as members of this HOA to change things moving forward? Quit beating the dead horse and let’s look to the future of Surfside, stop the Nations Political BS and let’s concentrate on us here in this community. What needs to be done and what can be realistically changed?
Now let’s start a conversation!
@8:49, you're joking right??!! Clancy only wants to spend our money. He is not interested in anything but helping his Sheriff buddies or his political buddies. His water trailer is a joke.
Every monthly meeting I look forward to what he wants to spend our money on.
Yea and it's not for delivering water when we have a break. What a total waste of money!
8:24....8:13, sounding like Mr.Clancy, wanted to point to claims the EPA didn't find the Asbestos issue much of a problem. 8:13 wants to deny that huge amounts of money have been wasted on fines, penalties, and legal fees, when the facts prove otherwise. Yes, moving on to current issues is more prudent, but misuse of funds and HOA non-compliance to State snd Federal regulations are important to keep in mind, moving forward. The BOT has consistently looked the other way as Clancy has made decisions independently that have cost the community dearly, and sidetracked more important matters. Poor management decisions by the Board cannot be ignored, and such failures should not be rewarded with re-election. That's the lesson that needs to be learned here.
I am not claiming the EPA considered the asbestos incident was no big deal, I am saying the facts show it to be true. Surfside was fined by the the Washington State Department of Labor and Industry for employee safety violations. That fine had nothing to do with the buried asbestos pipe. The EPA investigated the buried pipe and then closed the investigation with no civil or criminal action. That is the definition of no big deal. L and I fines thousands of employers every year for violations of employee safety laws. It is a large part of their revenue stream. Just ask North Beach, Long Beach, Ilwaco, Port of Ilwaco, the list goes on and on. Mountains out of mole hills. The view is always good from the cheap seats.
NO, not Clancy. We as a community need to look forward not back! We have 3 BOT seats open in July and we need to work to get those people gone! It is time for the entire community to be involved and get rid of the stupid spending and tree killing, eventually Clancy and his stupid spending can also be gone! Our dues should be around $300-400 per year. Stop the insanity and let’s get to serving the entire membership not the few!
@7:44, Totally agree with you. All 3 of those board members need to be gone. Lets get some fresh blood in there and start taking back our community.
I thought Marianne was going to be good for us, but her last comment during the meeting about RV's being eyesores was enough for me.
6:14PM, Sounds like you condon sloppy work , mismanagement and waste of fund’s. Well I don’t.
I don’t condone sloppy work, mismanagement, or waste of funds. Conversely, I realize when you run a business there will be problems. People make mistakes of commission and omission. No HOA, local, state, or federal government agency, large or small business is free of mistakes. If you were in charge, you would make mistakes as well. Would you want people scrutinizing you with the harsh judgement you are handing out. Most people would resign if they received the level of scrutiny you are using on the board. You are sensationalizing the mistakes made in order to make them look worse than they are. You are willing to unfairly ruin their reputation just because they support policies you dislike and yet you are unwilling to promote your cause and sponsor your own candidates for the board. Your tactics are despicable and that is why your numbers are few. The board members are volunteers doing their best to accomplish work they were never trained to do. You would not do any better.
6:14....You can't stop making excuses for these ridiculous management failures. Yes, all of these municipalities had the same mistaken notion that they could ignore Asbestos protocol on the books for 50 years. That's a whole lot of stupid, and irresponsible waste of community funds.
The BOT tends to take this attitude that we can ignore State and Federal restrictions because we have plenty of money to pay fines and legal fees if the HOA gets cited for non-compliance. Meanwhile we are burdened with this ridiculous Tree policy that is an annual obsession to harass as many members as possible over tree heights that have NO real interference with views.
If you live on top of a hill you have views, and it in most cases may have trees in the view no matter where in Western Washington you live. The attitude that 6:14 clings to is blatant hypocrisy, is useless to the community, and has no place in the Boardroom.
That is some of the most self righteous dribble I have ever heard. Do you know of any self righteous citizens in Long Beach, Ilwaco, or any other jurisdiction caught in the asbestos pipe situation. No you did not. Surfside has a monopoly on better than you no it alls. Most People don’t like self righteous people. That could be why your group is so small.
I don't think Marianne would say RV's are eyesore. I think she may have meant the dilapidated run down Manufactured homes that have been abandoned with no lot maintenance are eyesores. She may have used the wrong term, not sure, but I will let her know of this miscommunication and this blog next time I see her just to clear this up.
I am very certain Mariann was referring to the run down lots, like the one on the corner of I and oysterville road. We have had a conversation about the unequal treatment of RVs and she is. In support of treating everyone the same!
I'm expressing my opinion, and don't claim to speak for a"group'. Calling a spade a spade is not self-righteous. Board members made every effort to hide these screw-ups as well as the shitload of money wasted. Mistakes are sometimes made and when they cost the community hundreds of thousands of dollars, an explanation and apology can be offered to show good faith. This stuff was just swept under the rug, and to the extent that YOU are still in denial of the significance. If you are a B. Member, you should resign. You don't understand the responsibility Trustees have to the community.
During the BOT meeting both Gary & Marianne agreed that all RV’s in Surfside were EYESORES, as a Trustee attending an online meeting you may want to think before you speak if you don’t want to come across as a follower of the sitting BOT. What amazes me is Williams says RV’s are EYESORES when he owns 2 RV lots across the street from his house and had a large motor home parked in his driveway this summer.
KETTLE MEET POT!!!!
If you have misspoken, explain yourself to the membership.
That is not what I heard. I went back and listened to the meeting minutes. The conversation about RV's starts at 1:25:40 and ends at 1:33:55.
What was discussed was the difference in year round RV living from East side vs. West side and the condition of those lots which DO NOT have the winter rules attached to them on the east side of J ridge (trash compactor area). There appears to be year round residents in those temporary units and/or abandon trailers and they are "eyesores" after the years have beat down the trailers. There is brief discussion on why there are two different sets of rules and the fairness of this.
This was not about RV's as a whole. Go listen again, it has nothing to do with anyone using their lots in accordance with winter covenants.
And yes, many of the RV lots landscape is quite impressive! I applaud all those beautiful landscaped lots.
Respectfully, I would like to add- When Marianne said they are an "eyesore everywhere", in the context of the entire conversation, I heard that to mean everywhere in the world, not just inside Surfside and that Travel trailers are not built or meant to be full time living units and they break down and deteriorate over time.
Since very early in Surfside history, lots have been sold for RV use. Lots that do not have room for septic tanks are still marketable as RV lots. I think that making broad statements of personal dislike for RVs is inappropriate for a seated Trustee, let alone several. This absence of conscience relative to a large portion of Surfside's members demonstrates the truth to claims the BOT represents special interests and serves ridgetop view nonsense at everyone else's expense. The Tree enforcement is key to continous affirmation that J Pl. owners are special and deserve unique rights and privileges. There is no legal avenue to ending RV use where owners have bought in good faith, lots specifically sold as RV lots.
Steve, you are letting your personal ill will toward the board to create a hypercritical narrative. The board is made up of volunteers elected by the community. The community will decide if the competency of a trustee is unacceptable in July. You are not the conscience or the judge of Surfside. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Public sentiment does not indicate any support for your opinion.
@ 9:15
Recreational Vehicles are built to very high standards, steel frames with aluminum upper structure, foam insulation, fiberglass exterior walls, even residential type appliances. They are built to last! As with any residence care and maintenance is the big issue, drive around Surfside and look at all the stick built houses with rotten roofs, walls, rodent infestation and explain how that is OK?
The manufactured home at I street and Oysterville Rd is an eyesore beyond compare and located on I am sure one of the most traveled roads in Surfside. It looks like a good candidate for Fire Department training!
Stop condemning RV’s and look at all residences in the same light, they all should be required to meet the same standards! The RV lots pay the same dues and get a lot less benefit due to the silly winter restrictions.
Treat all the same since we are all members or just continue to roll your eyes and thumb your nose at those that don’t follow your path!
You people are something else. You bitch about RV's while the whole area looks like a bomb blast with dead trees. You forget that the rv people are paying most oi the bills. Opinions and public sentiment? Show me the facts. As for Oysterville Road, the whole road looks like a cheap trailer park.
The people on this blog just want to fight. No reasoning on any subject whatsoever. It's very unproductive and not something I want to be part of or associated with. I'm happy not to know who anyone is. What a colossal waste of time and a complete void of happiness.
I'm going to forget I even know about this blog. Sad really, it could be a better blog but the grumps and bullies won't allow for logical discussion.
Go on with your bitterness, there's better people to play with out here in the community....
RV people pay most of the bills? This is the funniest comment I've heard in quite some time. Seems someone needs to get a new calculator. If you weren't here, someone else would be. That someone probably wouldn't be as bitter and full of self importance that doesn't exist except in your own head. Huh, they may even be able to afford a real house and build on the lot, pay more in property taxes for the community, and keep paying their dues without bitching about it, which leads me to the next point.
RV'ers are takers. That's right, nothing but takers, paying minimal property taxes, invade a community in the summer, bringing obnoxious noise pollution, air pollution, and biological pollution. The best part about RV'ers is they leave for the winter, yes, that is the BEST PART.
I'd be willing to pay significantly more to rid this HOA of camping lots. But that won't be necessary now will it. You are outnumbered and your lots will eventually be real homes, so like I said at the beginning, get a new calculator and stop inflating your self worth because it only exists in your own mind.
Wow I thought I’d seen a lot of hate here lately, but this takes the cake! I’m so embarrassed that someone in our community would stoop so low and post such hateful things! I truly don’t believe most people feel like this jerk!
I’d say you are the one who needs to move to a completely gated community and leave us who love this diverse area in peace!
Only you are ascribing any claims my words have any influence. I just state my opinions-but they ring true to a lot of members. You'll just have to accept that. We all know well that a tiny segment of members vote annually, and the seated Board prefers this status-quo lack of introspection and progress. I don't focus on the Board much, only the lack of honesty about expensive mistakes, and lack of vision.
I agree Joanne. Ypu get the last word on this topic. Time to move on to the next one. This is a long way to scroll down. There has been some interesting comments.
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