Member requested posting...
Surfside chipping program is nothing more than a tree topping program that has been disguised as a fire wise program. Member money is used to pay for this program but not all members are allowed to use this program as it is stated in all the information that gets put out about the upcoming program. It would be nice if all members could load up their burnable materials and take them to a proper disposable site and there is one on the peninsula.
The fire wise program is designed to bring a community together and clean up as much burnable material starting on the ground and cleaning as much up as can be done that would include trimming trees from the bottom up six or 7 feet off the ground not taking the tops out. Fires do not start in the top of the trees.Fire wise has a stop topping tree program and if I were to get a letter stating that my trees were over height I would just tell them no.I am going to follow the fire wise program they have the experts in this field and I feel that this would be a good thing to do. Surfside has no experts that know about the care of trees or any other vegetation.
73 comments:
I'm sure glad I'm out of Surfside!!!
Stumpside is becoming a swampside. The trees that soaked up the water are being destroyed for a view for a view. The gorse and scotch broom love that new found light. Next will be all the complaints for noxious weeds growing on the denuded lots. They burn a lot better than the pine trees. We are not firewise, we are fire stupid.
Go cut your trees to protect my view!
If anyone tries to end the tree policy and take away my view, I'll sue you. It won't be in small claims court.
You are a poser. You don't have the courage to sign your name,let alone stake big bucks that you can win such a shaky case.
On the contrary 5:42. I think you wish you were still here. Why would you continue to follow (troll) this blog otherwise, your jealous that you made a mistake and left?
Yes, that's right. I'm jealous. Gary Williams is a great leader. Rudd Turner is a great Treasurer. Annette and Peggy are great leaders too. I miss Sutfside's great CC&Rs and their lawyer Samuel.
The tree policy is against the law!
This so called HOA needs to go away. It only serves those special interest members who only care about themselves. DUMP SURFSIDE . A crooked operation that is run by crooks. They have brought shame to us all. Williams. Peggy, Fr;rest, Olds and Clancy are the worst pukes. Throw in the dump Turner also. This place makes me sick.
See they planning on a "tie in" with nb water. Taking the next step folks, told ya.
The only tree policy that should be put in place is safety. Look online & see what happened in Spokane. 270 trees fell hitting home & killing people. A doctor at Shriners hospital was killed by a tree that fell.
There are no large stands of trees in Surfside, and different trees around Spokane than here. Safety is not an issue in surfside. Damage could be done by a fallen tree on the eastside of the ridge, and a couple incidences of that have occurred over several years, with no injuries. Many people just don' t worry about it, and that works well. Stands of trees grown for lumber can be vulnerable to big blowdowns, usually a fierce wind event of uncommon characteristics, like a sheer or tornado.
500 - you're pretty brave as long as its not your money. Go ahead and sue. Losing will get you out of here faster.
1127 - hallucinations getting the best of you? These people are a blight of self interest, not leaders.
Keep writing fiction. It just gets more entertaining.
Given that this tree stood for at least a century before Surfside developed, it's amazing that the tree has been spared. Obviously it has not bothered anyone's view up to now, and it should be declared a "miracle" and noted as such to guests to the community. There's no possible excuse for any Surfside compliance demands, and no reason not to declare this tree a landmark and a "grandfather". This really has nothing to do with continued enforcement of the standards. Apparently only some Spruce survive the budworm disease, so it may be genetically stronger than the average Spruce tree.
Noticed that every Board agenda item that spending associated with it had Clancys name as the individual responsible. Maybe you all should just write out the checks for your assessments just straight to him and skip the middle man.
He can’t get $585K out of his house so he’s gonna piss off as much HOA money as he can before people here get smart and dump his condescending ass!
Pine trees should be pruned annually. One of the goals of pruning is to control growth. Read what the experts say: https://www.mortonarb.org/trees-plants/tree-and-plant-advice/horticulture-care/pruning-evergreens
1:52....This advice is in direct opposition with the advice of the Nat. Soc. of Arborists. The site you listed says specifically that Pines do not usually need routine pruning. It warns against "shearing" and cautions not to trim more than a few inches off of the "candles" if deemed necessary. It also warns against cutting more such that the cut is in the 'woody" part of the branch, which Surfside owners are forced to ignore in order to comply.
In a densely populated urban area, pruning may be routinely done, but it is not recommended by this site you recommend, or any other Arborists. No one in the community knows of another Wash. community that has the same restrictions as Surfside, but excuses keep being made for continuing this ridiculous policy. It creates unnecessary conflict in the community, and does nothing to enhance it.
Admittedly, I don't know much about the functions of our HOA, but maybe Clancy is assigned those duties, therefore, it appears he is a "spend thrift"? I don't imagine one man is in entire control of said expenditures. I, too, would have a tendency to make blanket statements or ideas if not for many years of government experience. Please don't kill me for not knowing the history as you all may well know, but I would be first in line to throw a fit if one guy gets to make up ways in his head to spend money. Me thinks there's more here than the one fall guy.
According to the website, pine trees should be pruned, never sheared, in the spring when new growth appears. Pruning will produce a compact, uniform plant and maintain a plant shape. The pruning should be pinching one-third to one-half of each candle when it expands in the spring. Do not prune back into woody stems, new growth will not develop from these areas. The website also notes that Most evergreens have a strong central branch leader, which requires little pruning except to control plant height, increase the density of branching. If you own pine trees in Surfside you should consider how you should care for them. We live in a rural setting with urban densities. Small lots that barely allow for a dwelling and fit a septic system. Good neighbors are conscientious about how their actions will affect their neighbors. HOA’s provide punitive incentive for neighbors who neglect or refuse to maintain their home and property in a, well, good neighborly fashion. In Surfside members are required to follow all of the covenants. There are many good neighbors in Surfside. Their pine trees are well maintained. They are maintained to be aesthetically pleasing and in compliance with the covenants. Those members are an example of good neighbors. The members who allow their lot, developed or not, to become a forest is not a good neighbor and should not be allowed to flout the rules.
Mr. Cox, there are many communities in Washington state that have tree height restrictions. One is Woodbridge in Bellevue Washington. If you want I can provide more. Many other states have communities with tree height restrictions.
You can google James Shea et al vs Signal Hill Road LLC in New York. The case was decided upon appeal. The appellate court. The appellate court determined that the view, Lake Placid, was to be preserved and the trees had to go.
Just curious how many watched and listened to the board meeting Saturday? Comments?
Thank you 10:28 for your comment. I agree with you about how the good neighbors who follow the covenants they agree to have trees that are well maintained. I'm one of those and still have all but one of the trees that were on the property when I bought it.
I also agree with your forest comment. It would be a different story if there was only a couple trees on a lot but that's not the case here. If I wanted to live in a forest I would have bought on the east side or some place in the mountains, not in an oceanside community.
So one neighborhood in upscale Bellvue, a crowded suburb of Seattle, and ONE legal case decided on appeal. That's the examples you come up with? And the pruning details are misrepresented. The "candles" on Surf Pines are about 12 inches long. How will trimming 4 " a year result in a 12 ft. tree for life? Note that the site calls this pursuit of a "plant shape". Sad excuses for a small group of owners controling ALL of the trees west of the ridge, on demand. There is no viable excuse where member equality is an HOA standard in State RCWs.
10:18 you are right, you don’t know much about the HOA, specifically the Board. I have, for over 12 years. Interacted with the Board on many occasions. Ask any full timer in Surfside who has ever gone to a Board meeting about Mr Clancy’s inflated opinion of his importance.
He is their monster want your bidding done put it in his head wind him up and set him loose he will do their bullying intimidation leading with covenant battle cry. They learned well from Trump.
And since surfside has been negligent for decades in enforcing their covenants and you but a lot with over height trees where is Surfside’s responsibility in this they have not consistently enforced covenants but now they have decided to . So because of surfside not informing their own covenants hundreds of members are now bullied intimidated threatened into cutting trees for a lot many unfortunate member now owns.
I would also like to know. I heard a couple of people trying to bully the rest to agree with the loudest most obnoxious of the bunch to only consider the holy mission of cut all trees never mind the circumstances
Nope, too busy deciding which employees to lay off on Wednesday, now that I'll be able to save some money by hiring "undocumented citizens" under the table again.
Steve, you wrote “No one in the community knows of another Wash. community that has the same restrictions as Surfside”. Therefore, I gave the name of one community in Washington that has the same tree restrictions as Surfside. You are correct, that community is located in Bellevue but, Bellevue is in Washington. So my point is, there is at least one other community in Washington that has and enforces tree height covenants. There are many more communities that have tree height restrictions and if you insist on denying that fact I will provide more examples as needed.
You have indicated the tree heights are illegal and immortal. Therefore, I provided an example of one court, albeit in New York, that recognized the importance of upholding restrictive covenants even when it requires homeowners to modify the height of, or remove precious trees.
You should fact check. It is embarrassing to be wrong so often.
Most Central American refugees are farmers, so are not competition for skilled jobs. No policy change has been made, and what form a new policy might take are yet to be seen. There are lots of seasonal jobs that citizens refuse to do, and we'll still be dying of Covid for many moths to come.
Please enlighten us. Who got laid off? Hopefully it was most of the Board members.
The board will sue you if you don't comply with the rules!
Go ahead and say their breaking the law. The state government can do nothing. HOAs are a civil matter.
Therefore, the board can do anything it wants! Deal with it!
I will be ending the comments on this topic posting, at the end of today. Get your last words in, as we move on to another topic.
10:17....Our covenants do not protect views, and the HOA admits that the Tree restrictions serve owners on the ridge, an unspecified number, with an unspecified "view", and using no verification that any "view" is obstructed. No one has taken the HOA to court to verify that tbis is a legally valid issue to force upon about 2/3 of the member households. Owner trees should be respected as private property in my opinion. The policy doesn't make sense, and mandates damage to the community's landscape for an eternity.
The policy does not make sense to you. It makes perfect sense to me. Members who purchased view lots paid extra for those views. They believed the covenants would protect their investment. They should not be demonize for their purchase or their reliance on the covenants. The members who benefit from the views deserve due process. Put your money where your mouth is. Find a lawyer file suit. You may just win, although I doubt it.
Anonymous @ 5:58 PM
My property on I street with 30 foot tall trees would in NO WAY detract the view of any person on J Place, but yet I am forced to trim my trees to 16 feet! Explain to me the sense of that? I will just remove all of my trees (shore pines are really ugly anyway) and move on, someday this BOT will get their Karma back! Remember we all are supposed to stand at the Pearly Gates for judgement. A person living on J Place is not guaranteed a view by any Covenant, please preach to the courts not us!
This nonsense has to stop! Maybe it’s time for the members to call a meeting and remove the board? The HOAs are supposed to treat all members equally and we know for sure this one does not! The rules we all signed up for do not apply to everyone at all. If they did there would be rules about the trees, lights and RVs that apply to the east side as well! I’m not saying anything bad about them, but let’s be honest this whole thing is a mess!
You could win if prove that not everyone is treated equally. Has enforcement been constant consisten over years? Nope
I find it ironic that you feel so entitled, when the values aren't really enhanced by today's standards. 50 years ago when our G St. place was built, the surf was about 30 yards away. The views disappeared over the years as the dunes over 20 ft high built up. We had no idea there had been a view when we bought. You have no valid claim to a view as I see it. Nature changes season to season, and decade to decade. It's absurd to try and pretend that changes in nature are a violation and need regulation.
Your arguments have all been used in courts throughout this state and others. The courts overwhelmingly side with the covenants. All your bellyaching will not change the fact that everyone of you bought your lot knowing full well what was expected of you. Maintain your trees or sell them to someone who will,
I also recommend anyone on the east side of I backing up to the J place hill to remove all vegetation, leaving bare soil/sand. Ultimately it will be beneficial to most of the community as well as enjoyable to watch what ensues. No covenant requires leaving plants for hillside stability.
You offer no verification of your claim. The point I make repeatedly is, our HOA and ridge owners state that "views" are protected, when they are not. Enforcement NEVER establishes that a view is obstructed. G St. Homes and dunes obstruct views, and there is nothing can be done to change that. As I said, thete is no written template for WHO has a "view" lot, or WHAT the view IS. This is a bunch of phony baloney to suggest that it can be defended in court, and it has not.
It well established that tree and building height restrictions serve only one purpose, to preserve views. Your double talk cannot change the fact that everyone who purchased a lot in Surfside was or should have been aware of what was expected of them. The covenants are recorded on their deed. Buyers remorse is not a good reason to adversely affect your neighbors enjoyment of their property. Who are you to judge what they consider a delightful view. They bought their property, as did all of us, expecting the covenants to protect their investment and the enjoyment of their property. If you do not want to follow covenants, don’t buy in an HOA.
BTW Steve. The covenants do not need to be defended in a court unless someone challenges them in a court. For now they are the rule that prevails, whether you like it or not. Nobody can say how a court will rule on any case. You are convinced the covenants would be overturned by a court. Rather presumptuous on your part. I have no idea how a court would decide if the covenants were challenged. What I do know is that courts have overwhelming supported restrictive covenants when those covenants are challenged. I suggest you hire a real lawyer and challenge the convents in a real court. You write wordy briefs on this blog to convince the court of public opinion. Why not try your arguments on a real judge and see what happens. All the rest is hot air.
Mr. Cox,
Please offer verification of your claim "The point I make repeatedly is, our HOA and ridge owners state that "views" are protected, when they are not."
The last board meeting was recorded and it is clearly stated by at least one board member that views are not protected.
If you want to talk about "fair", as I drove along J this evening, I notice at least three (3) houses with string lights glowing. These lights are no where near as cool as Joanne's lights. How about some enforcement? If Joanne can't have low glow edison bulbs then those other ugly's need to go too!
I don't understand the mindset of you shouldn't buy in an HOA if you don't want to follow the covenants. The opposing argument could be you should build your house to allow for unobstructed views for eternity. Just because a covenant is written doesn't mean it's a good one or serves the changing community well. Some things are just plain nonsensical and need to be revised. Simple as that.
Oh, and I'm NOT saying tree heights are written to protect views of highlanders. As a matter of fact, I can't find a reason for it anywhere.
Anonymous 7:21. Thank you for noticing what we’ve known since our lighting complaint of July 2019 and our appeal being turned down with absolutely no justification from the board. It took until March of 2020 for us to receive a formal letter from the BOT stating our lights were in compliance!
I’ve stated this more than once and firmly believe we were victims of “selective enforcement “. It’s very apparent especially since this much time has elapsed. We would love to hire a lawyer to prove our case, but we really don’t want to spend this time of our lives spending time and money and suffer stress, when these issues could easily be corrected!
We’ve tried to keep a positive attitude and wish only to improve our HOA, but have not felt very welcome or asked to give any input so far.
Look up selective enforcement as form your own opinion.
Oh and by the way the lights belong to Ron and JoAnne, I’m just the vocal one, but you really wouldn’t want to see Ron turned loose at a board meeting. He has no filter and calls things as he sees them😂
30 feet 7:32? So what you're telling us is you never had ant intention of following the covenants at all, right? If you had followed them like many others you more than likely would still have your trees, like many others do.
And again to 11:13, when people are talking views it has to do with the ocean and the horizon, not the beach, so sorry, it may not be valid to you but it is to others.
Covenants are rules all in the community agree to follow. If you do not like a rule, can you just ignore it? All rules are going to benefit some and hinder others. If you do not like a rule then work to change it. In the meantime, follow the rules.
I have never witnessed any public acknowledgement that views are NOT protected. To say "at least one B. Member" made such a statement does not establish a BOT admission. There have been around 300 member households sent compliance demands in each of the last 2 years, with no mechanism to verify any view is obstructed. Ridge owners comment on the blog all the time, insisting that their view was assured when they bought their places. The question remains, will this policy be abandoned? I haven't seen the slightest indication that the Board would consider such a change. Don't bitch at me - my statement remains accurate.
@JoAnne - it seemed the board was receptive to your request for help for sandbags and other assistance due to the King Tides when that really isn't their purview or required. Do you see it differently?
Anonymous 10:53 oh yes I see it differently! There was no help other than giving us the bags. If you want the details please call me and I’ll fill you in! Someday it may be you who is left on your own to handle a problem.
Hang on to that letter Joanne. Talk is cheap and paper is gold. You never know when some other person will get bored and start driving around looking for something to complain about, as in the case of the grandfather tree someone now wants gone from another persons property. smh.....
The only trees I have on my property are stunted by the winds and weather, and will never be an HOA issue. We are in our fifth year in Surfside, and the amount of damage we've seen as the result of this policy is just embarassing. The community was created by bulldozing most of the wetland that it destroyed, leaving a barren wasteland that no one wanted to buy, entirely stripped of trees. Why would I take the HOA to court, when hundreds of owners aren't willing to organize and stop this madness? I simply point out that there is no rational argument to defend the policy. If it doesn't protect views, and the covenants indicate it doesn't, what the f*ck does it do besides force owners to obey for obedience sake. It's just a POWER TRIP !
I forgot to mention empty bags! Not a problem though our neighbor, Ron and two friends filled and hauled the bags. Just didn’t want to leave the impression filled bags were delivered! Not that they should have been, but wasn’t an easy job for us older folks
Thanks @JoAnne. I'm only basing off listening to the board meeting. My initial thought from listening was that the HOA shouldn't be expected to provide sand or bags but it was good that they were willing to help as able and were looking into doing more in the future. Hope the water has settled now and your yard is back to normal.
You need to demand sand filled bags JoAnne. The hoa is responsible for your property!
@ 11:06 PM
My statement was I could allow my trees to grow to 30 feet, not that they are 30 feet tall. They have been trimmed and I have not received any complaints, I am saying they are ugly with a flat top and are not meant to be that way. For the sake of future cost savings I will just cut them down and season the burnable wood for campfires and haul all the branches away. End of story and no worry about the Pro-Active complaint system! It’s what the BOT and J Placers want!
I agree 2:10. It was nice that they did provide the bags since they weren't required to do so. But of course it's never enough for some people. When I lived in the Seattle there was an area that was prone to flooding and the same was done. There were pallets of empty bags and a pile of sand delivered for you to fill them.
I am curious, what more did you want them to do?
Anonymous 2:10. I don’t know where the impression came that the HOA were willing to help. Yes, they provided the empty sandbags, but it wasn’t done with any courtesy or compassion. If you don’t think the HOA should provide sandbags empty or filled, what do you think about us spending the$8000 for the emergency water wagon? Personally I think it’s our HOAs duty to help protect us from emergencies that happen here in this area
One thing was brought to light, the need for a volunteer group ready to pitch in and assist when needed. There are lots of nice, caring members here that I’m sure would be more than willing to do this. I know we would.
Covenants are usually agreed to by the entire association, not a small amount of self interested empire builders. They are also reviewed to guarantee fairness and applicability to current events.
The Board make the covenants, applt them as THEY see fit, and allows no one else to remark or dissent.
To the fool who keeps saying "live to the covenants or move". Your argument is crap, generated by the knowledge your playing with a stacked deck. That won't last forever.
Steve, you are STILL the most logical out here.
Don't let the postings of mentally deficient board members deter you.
Excuse me, maybe I misunderstood. Did you pay for the bags? If not than no matter what you think it WAS done as a courtesy. Using your logic, should the HOA had provided the tarps, wood and manpower for when my roof failed during the major storm we had some years ago? No. I took care of it myself with some help from a neighbor, just like I helped him in the past.
I'm sorry this happen to you but I always find it interesting, for lack of a better word, how ungrateful you are coming off here. Like the other person said, they aren't required to do anything yet they did. And wasn't one of those "fiends" a Trustee? Funny how you left that out.
@January 22, 2021 at 10:15 PM
Oh lord, get off your high horse. The only reason water ran up the approach and flooded those homes was due to the 10 foot sand piles along the north side of the approach, scraped out from the drainage ditches leading out to the ocean to protect the other HOA members from flooding who live along the canals and lakes . If the HOA pays to protect some, why not pay to fix the problem they created by contracting with a company who messed up. Go find some other place to an asshole.
I don't see that JoAnne is being unappreciative, especially considering her point that no one really knows why the Water wagon was purchased. Flooding is a very real phenomenon annually. When would the Water wagon be used ? It has potential use in specific emergencies, but the water needs to be fresh and many details about sourcing, manning, and preparing for the unpredictable disaster are unknown by the community. The McMurphys are over 80 yrs. old, so making sanbags and throwing them around is challenging w/out help. Many owners are retirement age and older.
Oh really anonymous10:15! Did we pay for the bags and the salary of the one who delivered them? I sure think so as our dues are what runs this place! Are you joking? And no when our roof was damaged in 2009 we didn’t expect the HOA to take care of it, but this is just a little different! We do have an emergency management committee and this brought to their attention and to ours the need for some changes here. We will soon have some kind of emergency volunteer team in place to assist members who need help in troublesome situations.
And no none of our three friends were trustees, don’t know where you got that idea! Gary Williams, Mark Scott and Tom Rodgers were helpful and supportive that evening and we all became aware of shortcomings in the help category.
Almost all of us move here to retire and leave the biggest part of our family elsewhere. Not easy to try and contact people you only meet on the beach, but there are so many nice, willing people that would gladly lend a hand if they know they’re needed!
If my complete letter to the board would have been read , you would have realized it was not an ungrateful response at all! There was one small issue of manners that is being handled, but the rest of my comments were directed at some ideas to help improve this situation with the drainage from our lake and canals.
It would be nice if we could quit being so critical of every statement people make! As I stated to the board members and others, I’m grateful things didn’t get any worse, but we need to be better prepared and reach out when people need assistance!
Oh I forgot to mention Mariann Schweitzer BOT member also was concerned for our situation
If you look at the last BOT meeting minutes the water wagon has now cost us members $30,000, Clancy had to buy a 13 year old F-250 truck to tow that water trailer around, so now we have a truck & trailer sitting and rotting away in the salt air! Isn’t that why they don’t want RV’s year round in Surfside? The price of $22,000 for the truck is 30 to 50% above what typical market value is for that vehicle, what Clancy friend got a bonus out of Surfside?
@10:43, the board did jack shit to help Joanne out. Her help came from friends and the fire department
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